Tiger Posted February 10, 2001 Share Posted February 10, 2001 Ok a bit off topic but after enjoying all the hard work BTS has put into CMBO, this just makes me mad as hell. Seems Napster is going to get into games as well. Now you won't even have to pay people like Charles, Steve and Co. for their hard work, as everything should be free for download.... A spokesman for Bertelsmann's New Media division told MCV, "The potential applications for a Napster subscription service covering interactive entertainment are huge. It would make perfect sense to extend this to games." Chief Executive of Bertelsmann, Thomas Middelhoff told the magazine this week, "We decided to speak to Napster and develop a legitimate business model. File sharing is not just about music. It is also about films and entertainment." Now we all know that nobody wants to sit through several hundred megs of downloading a game, but with today's high-speed access services is this really a problem? What if Napster includes a resumable-download for this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robeek Posted February 10, 2001 Share Posted February 10, 2001 Hmmm. That's a good point. I'll be honest, I'm not exactly a person of morals. I never felt bad for napster-use when it came to Mp3 trading and such, considering I still go to concerts and that most of the music I listen to belong to bands which I really don't personally find worth the money to endorse. Now though... BTS has put a lot of work into this... and I know how little they get in cash return for it.. damn. Napster really IS starting to look evil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximus Posted February 10, 2001 Share Posted February 10, 2001 Originally posted by Robeek: considering I still go to concerts and that most of the music I listen to belong to bands which I really don't personally find worth the money to endorse. Uhmm, don't mean to be nit-picky, but why would you even listen to this particular type of music if you never intened to buy their albums? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted February 10, 2001 Share Posted February 10, 2001 I hope it only means shareware and other shoddy games. The latest Steel Panthers incarnation is available for free online - as a 300 Mb download! But this is direct from the producers. And you wouldn't have a manual to come with the game, even if you could download CM - another reason not to have the .pdf file mentioned earlier in another thread, I suppose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col Deadmarsh Posted February 10, 2001 Share Posted February 10, 2001 Seems Napster is going to get into games as well. Now you won't even have to pay people like Charles, Steve and Co. for their hard work, as everything should be free for download.... Actually, that technology is already here. You can download games or for that matter any program you want on one of those Gnutella clones. They've got almost everything. No, it's not as organized as Napster is but it's close. Bearshare, a Gnutella clone, has got the same clean interface as Napster and they've made it easy to log on, search for what you want, and dl it. Of course knowing what I know now about BTS's customer service and the great manual they put out, I have no trouble plopping down 45 clams for this game. But when it comes to graphics software like Photoshop, am I really gonna pay $800 for 1 program? I don't f***ing think so. ------------------ Youth is wasted on the young. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Compassion Posted February 10, 2001 Share Posted February 10, 2001 Originally posted by Tiger: Now we all know that nobody wants to sit through several hundred megs of downloading a game, but with today's high-speed access services is this really a problem? What if Napster includes a resumable-download for this? Yeah, but that's BMG talking about the subscription service they are going into with Napster so the content producers would see some return (after record company 'accounting')... You could have already stolen CM with third party helper apps to Napster like Wrapster or other peer file services like Gnutella or CuteMX. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robeek Posted February 10, 2001 Share Posted February 10, 2001 "Uhmm, don't mean to be nit-picky, but why would you even listen to this particular type of music if you never intened to buy their albums?" Because I like the music... not the people that make it. Kind of hard to explain... and if I spent anymore time on it, than it'd be so off topic that I'd risk getting this thread locked, so I won't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
:USERNAME: Posted February 10, 2001 Share Posted February 10, 2001 It takes me, maybe, a little less than two hours to realize 45 bux cash. It isnt alot of money. And I have no problem forking over them bux if it can get BTS to do the eastern front right. By paying for CMBO, you are buying into CMII. I enjoy the board, the scenario submissions, etc. (except the mod crap..thats wierd stuff man). And its all part of my 45 bux. Its a bargain. I couldn't trot out a dog-faced girl for a simple movie/dinner/shmootch date for that kind of scratch. (Maybe Madmatt could though, but thats cause his sister likes him). But. If some creeps here have to pilfer someones hard work because they feel they have the right to check out software before they buy, well, then fine. But. If they have the balls to hang here and download updated software, then I hope you choke slowly, alone, on some rancid lunchmeat. Real slow too. Hope its boloney loaf with pimentos too. People slave and finesse and put themselves into software. Its like crafting fine furniture. You dont have the right to steal furniture, even if its sitting on the porch and no ones looking. I hope you get a splinter up your tight cheap ass. Cause thats what you are. A tight cheap ass. Shame on you. I hope the pimentos go up your nose before you turn blue and croak. Lewis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Commissar Posted February 10, 2001 Share Posted February 10, 2001 Like Robeek, Im not a moral person, really. I'll admit it - I have downloaded Apps and games from warez sites. However, there is a fine line seperating something I'll do without thinking twice to something I would probably not do at all. Stealing from innovative people is something I will not do. Many a times after reading a good review in a gaming mag/web site, I tell my friends I will purchase the game. They respond that I should stop wasting money and get it for free. I say no, and they are confused since normally Im pretty cool with stuff like that. I appreciate creativity however, and would not want to burn creative individuals, even if I do have to spend my own money to support them. I've seen CM on warez sites, and I could have easily obtained it through that and learned the game "on the go". However, the demo cinvinced me this was a quality piece of work - a revolutionary one, even - and that stealing from these guys would only hurt myself. Since if everyone decides to steal, they will go out of business and the game I enjoy so much will go kaput. Now, downloading the latest crap Bill Gates threw up into the games market I wont give a second thought to. He's a billionaire, hes annoying, and he buys off good companies and makes them do stupid crap I happen to dislike (making Bungie concentrating on the X-Box with their Halo game, for one). If he wants my money, he can pry it from my cold dead fingers. Steve and Charles on the other hand, I'd give donations to Cheers! ------------------ "...Every position, every meter of Soviet soil must be defended to the last drop of blood..." - Segment from Order 227 "Not a step back" [This message has been edited by The Commissar (edited 02-10-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy w/gun Posted February 10, 2001 Share Posted February 10, 2001 Anybody here ever heard of hotline? If you have DSL or better you can literally download ANY movie you want in MPEG/AVI format faster than you can watch them. My friend does this all the time. ANYTHING that can be converted to file format can and will be found on hotline. The only catch is that you have to connect to servers, and you have to already know the name/password. Most people try to make a buck hosting their hotline servers. They set up a web page with banners from different sponsors and say something like "click on the banner and you'll find my password. Its the word after...." and in making you click on the banner to get the password, they make money. My friend made $4000 in a month this way, until commision juction found out and deleted his account. [This message has been edited by Guy w/gun (edited 02-10-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
109 Gustav Posted February 10, 2001 Share Posted February 10, 2001 Originally posted by :USERNAME:: If they have the balls to hang here and download updated software, then I hope you choke slowly, alone, on some rancid lunchmeat. Real slow too. Hope its boloney loaf with pimentos too. Would you stop describing my lunch! It's depressing enough just walking into the cafeteria knowing what I'm gonna be eating, eating the college food is even worse, and now you have to remind what it was. I feel kind of hypocritical posting this, because I have 2.4 gigs (!) of stolen MP3s on my computer. The only way I can justify my stealing is that the bands I listen to are either already millionares or all the members are dead. Either way, they really don't need my money. BTS, on the other hand, is almost providing a public service by making CM2. Good news is, there aren't very many examples of stealing undermining a commercial product. Movie companies hollered when VCRs came out, but people still go to movies. People still bought games even after CD burners became cheap enough for everybody to own. I guess stealing is just a market force, something that everyone pays for, driving up the cost of everything. ------------------ Well my skiff's a twenty dollar boat, And I hope to God she stays afloat. But if somehow my skiff goes down, I'll freeze to death before I drown. And pray my body will be found, Alaska salmon fishing, boys, Alaska salmon fishing. -Commercial fishing in Kodiak, Alaska Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russellmz Posted February 10, 2001 Share Posted February 10, 2001 i bought 0 cds in my life before napster. after napster, i bought 0 cds. but i have mp3s on my hard drive. does this mean that the bands lost money? ------------------ russellmz, Self-Proclaimed Keeper for Life of the Sacred Unofficial FAQ. "They had their chance- they have not lead!" - GW Bush "They had mechanical pencils- they have not...lead?" - Jon Stewart on The Daily Show Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dima Posted February 10, 2001 Share Posted February 10, 2001 People still bought games even after CD burners became cheap enough for everybody to own. Good point ! Until now I thought so too, but lately I am beginning to see the where it is going. If you read gaming news lately, you'll notice that more and more games that are announced will be first released for Plastation or upcoming XBox, and some of them won't even be released for PC at all. Why ? Because it is a lot harder to duplicate console-type of game than PC game. I don't mean to argue, actually CM is the first game I bought, even though I could get it for free, but CM is rather exception than the rule. Nevertheless I am sure 2-3 years from now we will witness quite many changes in PC gaming, changes for worse... [This message has been edited by dima (edited 02-10-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
109 Gustav Posted February 10, 2001 Share Posted February 10, 2001 Originally posted by russellmz: i bought 0 cds in my life before napster. after napster, i bought 0 cds. but i have mp3s on my hard drive. does this mean that the bands lost money? Same for me, although I have bought one CD in my life, after I got napster. (Hotel California) I wouldn't have bought it if I hadn't downloaded two or three of the songs first. More good news for BTS- there aren't as many pirated games or other software for macs as there are for PCs, and BTS has always been loyal to the mac. I doubt I could find a warez copy of CM for the mac even if I tried. ------------------ Well my skiff's a twenty dollar boat, And I hope to God she stays afloat. But if somehow my skiff goes down, I'll freeze to death before I drown. And pray my body will be found, Alaska salmon fishing, boys, Alaska salmon fishing. -Commercial fishing in Kodiak, Alaska [This message has been edited by 109 Gustav (edited 02-10-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raze Posted February 10, 2001 Share Posted February 10, 2001 I hate to say this (I really do) but there is NO difference between napster doing games and doing music. Both are creations that involved a lot sweat, blood, money and ambition. Both are the property of their respective creators and both should be protected from being ripped off for the sake of providing free entertainment to those who would take it for free! I'm sorry but I don't subscribe to Napster or their practices. I've purchased two CM's to insure the future success of Battle Front. For those of you who DL your music but now feel (because it could hurt YOU) that its "wrong" for Napster to get into games, I suggest you take a LONG look in the mirror and take a good look at what you've created. . . ------------------ "The art of fighting without fighting..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chupacabra Posted February 10, 2001 Share Posted February 10, 2001 When talking about Napster, a lot of people focus on the big record companies and multimillionaire bands like Metallica. Hell, people say, these guys already make enough money, what's it going to hurt if I download some MP3s? The trouble is that the big bands aren't primarily the ones getting hurt by Napster, it's the small bands. Often small bands are given record deals with puny advances, but decent royalties. What's more, the advance often then has to cover operating costs like recording and production. The band is basically gambling on the success of their record. If it does well, they may break even. If it bombs, the record company hasn't really lost anything. Now, where Napster messes up the business model is in the royalties. No sale = no royalties = hard-working band goes back to waiting tables. About a year and a half ago, a band I was playing bass on and off for released an album. I didn't actually play on it, but they were my friends and I was happy for them. It was a good album, they had a small college tour lined up, and I thought they had a decent chance to sell some copies. Which is why it was so disheartening to see the entire album up on Napster about a week after the first show on their tour. Don't kid yourself, folks, downloading illegal MP3s does **** up the business model, and it does hurt people who don't deserve it. It is stealing, and it is wrong. That said, BMG is instituting a subscription service. It's not corporate-sponsored theft, so I wouldn't worry about this. Bertelsmann is the largest entertainment corporation in the world, IIRC, so they're hardly looking to give stuff away. In concept, I think downloadable music will help the music industry in the long run, IF folks can ensure that the artists get paid for their work. Sorry for the rant, but I do feel strongly about this. ------------------ Soy super bien soy super super bien soy bien bien super bien bien bien super super Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoffel Posted February 10, 2001 Share Posted February 10, 2001 Latest I heard about Napster is that a German businessman bought the firm. The news said that people have to pay for their services within half a year,trough a sort of subscription. I never used or downloaded mp3's so if you have to pay for it than whats the big deal? The artists in question still receive a part of the money than I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruno Weiss Posted February 10, 2001 Share Posted February 10, 2001 It is an interesting copyright question, however I would tend to believe that their new subscription fee would place them in danger of IPR violation by virtue of the fact they are making a profit. There was a case thrown out in the NE US, a couple years back over a company sueing a fellow with a BBS for essentially doing the same thing. Giving games away, but he was not charging a fee, and therefore was not held liable for file sharing. However, Napster charging a fee makes the copyright issue a different story. I don't believe Napster's court troubles are over, but rather just starting. ------------------ "Gentlemen, you may be sure that of the three courses open to the enemy, he will always choose the fourth." -Field Marshal Count Helmuth von Moltke, (1848-1916) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Hough Posted February 10, 2001 Share Posted February 10, 2001 Solely because of Napster, I have bought: 1) A Dar Williams CD 2) A Loreena McKennitt CD 3) A Sunny Day Real Estate CD 4) A Weeping Tile CD 5) A Mazzy Star CD These are all my music purchases for the past year. Additionally, Napster has saved me from making a mistake with Papa Roach and 3 Doors Down, finding out they have no other good songs. The rest of my MP3 collection is stuff I already have, stuff I'd already taped off the radio, stuff unavailable elsewhere (some live stuff), my lost Dire Straits CD, and Slaid Cleaves, who I'm considering buying, and would never have considered, if I couldn't check him out on napster first. If I decide not to buy his stuff, I'll delete those. I respect the copyrights, beyond a 'try before you buy' thing, and my use of Napster, as far as I can tell, only helps artists producing good music. -John ------------------ so you can stay cool behind your window and choose the view you want to see but as long as there's others held captive do not consider yourself free -EMBRACE, "DO NOT CONSIDER YOURSELF FREE" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M Hofbauer Posted February 10, 2001 Share Posted February 10, 2001 I never used Napster, since it's too much of a hassle to me and my cable-modem having to DL all that stuff, then convert it and burn onto CD or record it to tape via the stereo. What little music I'm listening to will be classical music on the radio or buying select CDs from the bargain bin and voilá I'm a happy CM gamer with music background ) I find all those software pirates and napster users pretty disgusting. They're like parasites to the rest of society. The Commissar: "Stealing from innovative people is something I will not do." And who is the judge on whether the people you steal from are "innovative"? you? That's like someone saying: "In only kill people who deserve to be killed." Stoffel: Latest I heard about Napster is that a German businessman bought the firm. you aren't quite the early bird stoffel, are you? :0) see the initial post of this thread. Bertelsmann is a big trust roughly comparable to a crossover between CNN/Turner and Barnes&Noble. They were big in books (offering the only major book-club in germany), and media, and recently (last couple of years) turned their attention to the internet and made some other major aquisitions (Lycos etc.) besides napster. Bruno Weiss: "However, Napster charging a fee makes the copyright issue a different story." No, charging a fee doesn't matter about whether or not it is illegal, it would only raise the stakes (eventually their fine). When Bertelsmann took over napster, it was because they are planning to turn one of their major parasite problems (Bertelsmann is big in the music CD business too) into a cashcow of theirs by legalizing it and making people pay for DLs. Stupid move IMO, the pirates will simply migrate elsewhere. Tiger: very clever, you are to be commended to smuggle such a discussion in here under the cloak of a CM - thread-title =-) [This message has been edited by M Hofbauer (edited 02-10-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M. Bates Posted February 10, 2001 Share Posted February 10, 2001 Originally posted by M Hofbauer: I never used Napster, since it's too much of a hassle to me and my cable-modem having to DL all that stuff, then convert it and burn onto CD or record it to tape via the stereo. What little music I'm listening to will be classical music on the radio or buying select CDs from the bargain bin and voilá I'm a happy CM gamer with music background ) Hofbauer, You don't need to burn your tracks onto CD: some newer CD players can play mp3 files straight from a CD Recordable. Another option is to plug a portable mp3 player into your stereo system: I did this with my Rio 500 and it sounds fantastic. In would say I have purchased more music because of Napster. I definitely think that th way forward is a subscription service, with the artists getting the royalties which they deserve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoffel Posted February 10, 2001 Share Posted February 10, 2001 And who are you Hofbauer to make fun of people? May be some one makes a mistake in finding the right words? Or is that a crime in your little world. Since I am no German I didn't knew the firm was big. Besides I read it on the bussinessnews just this morning.I would not care Napster survives when they ask for money. Thats my point thats what I wanted to say. Besides they only do music right? So whats the big deal anyway. So just back off whit smart comments at least regarding me. ------------------ h.s. [This message has been edited by Stoffel (edited 02-10-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M Hofbauer Posted February 10, 2001 Share Posted February 10, 2001 Bates, I know that, but that would require the purchase of either item. I am not willing to spend that money for what little use it would be to me. Besides, I would still have the chokepoint of DLing on the modem. Finally, it wouldn't seem right to me. You don't steal something that's lying somewhere just because nobody sees you. As for DLing for "preview" purposes, that's ok, of course, nothing wrong about it. Comparable to listening to the sound on radio etc., you don't have to buy something before seeing (hearing) it, so as long as you use it to aid you in the decision processs and delete it afterwards I'm fully in support of it. Stoffel, easy, chill out. "And who are you Hofbauer to make fun of people?" Well, there wouldn't be much point in making fun of things, or animals, right? see that little smiley there? it means, hey, dude, check the first post in this thread - can happen to anyone. "A wise man knows to laugh about himself" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoffel Posted February 10, 2001 Share Posted February 10, 2001 ok ,no hard feelings just had a bad weekend. had an accident and wrecked my scooter sorry I was a little angry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruno Weiss Posted February 10, 2001 Share Posted February 10, 2001 Hofbauer wrote: No, charging a fee doesn't matter about whether or not it is illegal, it would only raise the stakes (eventually their fine). Actually it makes a lot of difference. Depending upon the specifications of the hypothetical we are discussing, and there is a vast difference between music, and program codes, files, and entire games. While the courts have shown an inclination to look the other way over alleged copyright violations involving the "sharing" of, or "giving freely" of copyright materials, loosely based upon an interpretation of the clauses of the law (i.e., the right to preview, review, comment upon, etc.,), those clauses do not apply where one is intentionally making a profit from someone else's copyright material. Whether or not, and to what degree, and how it plays out is like speculating on who will win the Superbowl next year. But one of the legal tests currently being used is whether or not a profit was intentionally made from the copyright violation. However, having said all that. I would agree with you that their charging a fee is most likely their own version of suicide. The crowd rush in the main, was to get things free. Now that it is going to cost moola, I'd speculate the majority of the crowd will simply go elsewhere. ------------------ "Gentlemen, you may be sure that of the three courses open to the enemy, he will always choose the fourth." -Field Marshal Count Helmuth von Moltke, (1848-1916) [This message has been edited by Bruno Weiss (edited 02-10-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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