Buckeye Posted July 27, 2000 Share Posted July 27, 2000 Interesting analysis, Fionn. So, maybe I know what I'm up against now? If so, maybe you'll tell me where the two other StuH42s and other Panther are too? ------------------ "Don't lie to me, Gustav! You're a stinkin' Mac user!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M Hofbauer Posted July 27, 2000 Share Posted July 27, 2000 I agree with v.Schalburg, and disagree with the earlier posts of KiwiJoe - ever since the III/F8 the StuG was essentially equipped and designed to be an anti-tank weapon not a support mobile gun. Completely agree with Mannheim Ubertanker in that the few supertanks strategy is risky - once put all my money in a KT and 5 seconds into the game its main gun was damaged from a HT's 50cal machine gun (!). war's hell! It seems with the wide range of possible results in CM's great engine it is oftzen a matter of personal experience, bias and superstition as to what units are considered good or bad. Personally, I feel ok with the StuG, but I have absolutely lost any confidence into the Pz IVs. Stuarts kill them all the time, they die like flies. And with 80mm hull and 50mm turret front armor, puting them hull-down seems to make matters only worse because it "seems" (again, might be just me seeing things) the enemy tanks aim directly for the turret's thin 5cm armor which means they are dead FAST. I admit the Hetzer is beter than the StuG in my experience. As of the ammo loadout of the StuG, smoke was usually not part of the regular loadout at all, they were only loaded for if the upciming mission specifically called for it. yours sincerely, M.Hofbauer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talenn Posted July 27, 2000 Share Posted July 27, 2000 I find the STuH42's to be a GREAT buy in DYO. The Allies have nothing comparable IMO. Its cheap, destructive and CLOSED TOP! The Priest is a mortar attracter... Overall I LOVE the STuGs. They are basically just armored AT guns to me. I place them like I would place other AT guns..in Ambush positions. The biggest advantages it has are mobility and near immunity to Mortars/Small Arms. The AT guns have the advantages of stealth and spotting ability. Its a trade off, and I find they work better in tandem. 2 STuGIII's and 2 75mm ATs make a POWERFUL (and economical) AT defense IMO. On the attack, I tend to go with MKIVs. As much as I love the 'big boys', fate has handed me my @$$ one too many times in other games to make me like the concept of 'all the eggs in one basket'. Also, in most DYO situation, the defender rarely has many AFVs so a MKIV performs adequately vs infantry type targets. Also, you can get 3 MkIVs for the cost of one Panther, so you actually have more firepower going down-range. Again, its an interesting trade-off. Talenn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silencer Posted July 27, 2000 Share Posted July 27, 2000 One question. why is it that the 95mm of the cromwell has a better HE and Hollow rating then the 105mm stugIV?? holow charge is dependant on the diameter (radius), the greater diameter the better penetration. Confuzed S. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfe Posted July 27, 2000 Share Posted July 27, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>I have absolutely lost any confidence into the Pz IVs<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Then buy Panzer IV/70(V)'s! (essentially an up-armored JagdPanzer IV with a better AT gun). You can almost get 3 JPzIV/70's for 2 Panthers. And it uses the same 75mm gun as the Panther. The JPzIV/70 has thinner side armor than the Panther, but the Panther is no gem in that department either. It has a lower silhouette than the PzIV; almost the same as the JagdPanzer IV, and much better frontal armor than either tank. From playing CM, I've gathered the bad thing about German armor is that the turret is either too thinly armored or too slow to traverse. I'm starting to like the turretless German vehicles more and more. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>I find the STuH42's to be a GREAT buy in DYO. The Allies have nothing comparable IMO.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Check out the Churchill VIII. Great roving HE fountain. Heavily armored (even the Panther's gun can have difficulty penetrating the armor from the front; while the Churchill's Hollow round can pierce the Panther's frontal armor), though obviously more expensive than the StuH42. Or for that matter, the Sherman 105. - Chris [This message has been edited by Wolfe (edited 07-26-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howardb Posted July 27, 2000 Share Posted July 27, 2000 I find the Stugs pretty effective, I think the keyword is patience. If you use them as mobile AT gun they're pretty effective. Don't position them in a way that makes flanking possible due to lack of turret. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Peltz Posted July 27, 2000 Share Posted July 27, 2000 My son learned that bigger is not necessarily always the better way to go when one of my British glider squads destroyed his King Tiger with a Gammon bomb as he was parked next to a building. He spent probably 75% of his allotted points on the beastie. I have used the StuG III,IV and Panzer IV G/H/J quite a lot, and find they do well. You have to be careful with them, but that holds true for all the armour in the game... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talenn Posted July 27, 2000 Share Posted July 27, 2000 Wolfe: Yes, the Allies DO have some nice 'HE' AFVs, but nothing that compares to the STuH42 in 'purchase points' The STuH42 is a STEAL IMO. Its cheaper than a regular tank by a considerable margin, and far cheaper than both Allied vehicles you mentioned. The lack of a turret is much less of a hindrance in a 'support' vehicle like this. I just want em to knock infantry out of buildings and entrenched positions. Turret traverse is much less meaningful in that role, so why pay for it? : ) Talenn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KiwiJoe Posted July 27, 2000 Share Posted July 27, 2000 Well I play allies mostly and I have to disagree that they dont have any really beasty tanks. Check out the sherman 76 jumbo. 178mm front armour, fast turrent, 1 x .50 cal 2x .30 cal, massive HE load with good blast, good AP round and AWESOME penetration with tungsten rounds. It can take an absolute pounding and if hull down its almost impossable to take out... min armour on the turrent is 152mm. The M26 is a sweet tank as well. Armour is similar to the panther and that 90mm gun kicks ass. Check out the churchil VII as well. Fast turrent, 152mm front armour and good 95mm gun. I find most of the german tanks have problems. Movement too slow, turrent too slow, rof too slow, weak side armour, too expensive etc. Plus factor in a lot of them have 85% armour ratings and they start to look less impressive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naja Posted July 27, 2000 Share Posted July 27, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>As of the ammo loadout of the StuG, smoke was usually not part of the regular loadout at all, they were only loaded for if the upciming mission specifically called for it. yours sincerely, M.Hofbauer<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Your gentlemanly demeanor sturred my interest and I "peeked" at your profile and was pleasantly surprised to see the link to your Panzerfaust und Faustpatrone page http://www.geocities.com/Augusta/8172/panzerfaust.htm . I enjoy learning, and found a plethora of knowledge on the subject that you chose to focus attention on. I would like to thank you and "plug" your website. Kamalu [This message has been edited by Naja (edited 07-27-2000).] [This message has been edited by Naja (edited 07-27-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mannheim Tanker Posted July 27, 2000 Share Posted July 27, 2000 Well, I played that QB with some Hetzers last night - and am pleased to say that I have a new favorite toy for the German defenses I chose a PzIV and 2 Hetzers to go along with my usual complement of infantry. I also bought 2 75-mm infantry guns. I let the computer choose its own units (it chose Brits with a hoarde of light armor). Despite attacking me with what appeared to be most of the M5's in the British Army, I had annhilate the British armo(u)r by turn 5. I went on to blow the crap out of their infantry shortly thereafter, and even mounted a counterattack and marched to the back of the map! I cannot even count the richochets off of my Hetzers. Cool toys, they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TURBO Posted July 27, 2000 Share Posted July 27, 2000 KiwiJoe I have to agree with you on the Jumbo. Played a QB last night and a jumbo starts tearing into my inf. I had a Hummel on his flank at 400+ meters which hit the side turret first shot, big explosion thought I got him. The funny part was the Jumbo starts traversing its turret and the Hummel crew abondons and takes off to the rear to change their shorts, sherman didn't even need to fire. [This message has been edited by TURBO (edited 07-27-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMC Posted August 1, 2000 Share Posted August 1, 2000 My biggest beef with the Stug is lack of ammo stowage for both the main gun and the MGs. If they survive for very long they'll soon be out of ammo and useless. I stay away form the Jagdpanzer because it doesn't have any significant capability to engage infantry. I normally opt for a tank that carries lots of ammo, but the big cats are awfully pricey and the Pz IV has a life expectancy of two turns (or less) of fighting. I wish there was a Pz III available. The Pz II Luchs doesn't pack enough punch though it is a nice little vehicle. I like those 75mm HTs too. They can do a good job in the right circumstances. I like Pumas, but they are allergic to Allied Half Tracks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andre76 Posted August 1, 2000 Author Share Posted August 1, 2000 I see a alot of people like the Stuh42, and after the last QB were it killed 17 inf, 2 mortar, 1 HT, 1 Saxon - I have to agree! But, the thread startet with the StugIII, which I'm not particulary fond of... André Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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