StugIII sucks!

[Andre76]

Well, maybe it don't if used corectly...

Anyway, when I try to "slug it out" over distance with Allied tanks (Shermans) the Stug's get killed almost instanly and without doing any damage of their own. But, one time I had a StugIII staying behind a building just waiting for some allied armor to come creeping. It was killed, but after itself had killed 5 Shermans! Does this mean that Stug's should avoid direct confrontations with allied armor? Or have I just been unlucky?

Gimme a King Tiger!

André

[Fred]

Andre,

the StuG has a very low silhuette, so use it for ambushes and stay hulldown if possible.

Because it lacks a turret, you should rotate it to the most likely enemy route of approach. Then set an ambush and turn the engines to idle (i.e. hide).

Now wait until a Sherman shows up...

Fred

[KiwiJoe]

1st off the stug is an assault gun designed for infantry support not tank hunting. 2nd off it does have a rather good AT gun and as the jerries found out COULD be an effective tank killer in certain situations. But because it lacks a turrent you cant expect it to charge forward and take on enemy tanks with any success. Its best used in a defensive role, hide it and ambush enemy targets when they are not expecting it. Don't slug it out, choose a panther if u want to go hunting.

[Jarmo]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by KiwiJoe:

1st off the stug is an assault gun designed for infantry support not tank hunting. (plink)

Don't slug it out, choose a panther if u want to go hunting.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I've found the stug to be very unefficient in infantry support.

Not enough ammo.

While it doesn't exactly shine as tank killer either, it's more than

equal to most sherman variants.

[Andre76]

quote:

-----------------------------------------

I've found the stug to be very unefficient in infantry support. Not enough ammo.

While it doesn't exactly shine as tank killer either, it's more than

equal to most sherman variants.

-----------------------------------------

What do you use it for Jarmo? Ambush armor?

So this means that the StugIII "falls between two chairs"? It's mediocre aginst both armor and inf?

André

[KiwiJoe]

Yeah I dont like them in any regard. If I want an infantry support weapon I'll choose the Stuh42 with the 105mmm gun... much meaner. And for an ambush tank killer a hetzer or marder III, not that I like non-turrent tanks at all.

[Andre76]

quote:

And for an ambush tank killer a hetzer or marder III, not that I like non-turrent tanks at all.

I've seen that a lot of people like the Hetzer, and yesterday I found out why. In this battle I had two Hetzers and one of the-now-famous-StugIII. Against these where some Shermans and som light tanks. The StugIII was killed almost right away.... but the two heroic little Hetzers killed all Allied armor. They got hit a couple of time, but 'cos of the armor slope(?)they all ricocheted! BUT, at the end of the battle, and this was a small battle, the two Hetzers had VERY little ap shots left (2-3). This is alarming and means that the Hetzer can't be relied upon in a bigger battle.

As for the MarderIII, hasn't tried it, but isn't it soft top? Don't like vehicles that can be destroyed by small arms fire!

André

[KiwiJoe]

Well u have to factor in cost. Marders cost 51 points, hetzer 75. You cant expect a god like beast killer with 100 rounds for that kind of cash. Trick is to set them up right and pull em out at the right time, sure they may die quick but if you can kill a 150 point tank before you do thats almost a 100 point difference in the case of the marder.

[Jarmo]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>

What do you use it for Jarmo? Ambush armor?

So this means that the StugIII "falls between two chairs"? It's mediocre aginst both armor and inf?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I haven't really made up my mind about it yet.

I keep them hidden, and advance to "hull down" when anemy is spotted.

StugIII does offer reasonable "bang for the buck". For ambushes,

hetzer IS better, but hetzer has very poor anti-infantry performance.

All around, I like PzIV more, but it costs more...

I try to stay away from Marders and other open tops. They are

too adept at catching mortar grenades.

Too many options, too little points

[Andre76]

qoute:

but if you can kill a 150 point tank before you do thats almost a 100 point difference in the case of the marder.

Good point! But still, it's never any fun to lose ANY vehicle.

Just on a completly different matter, where in New Zealand are you from? You see, I live in Norway, but was born in Nelson, New Zealand. So, I'm a bit interested in New Zealand and hopefully I'll travel "down there" someday.

André

[Andre76]

quote:

StugIII does offer reasonable "bang for the buck". For ambushes,

hetzer IS better, but hetzer has very poor anti-infantry performance.

Is it better to have "specialized" tanks than "all rounders"? Is it better to have some Hetzers and som anti-inf AG rather than just have some tanks that is mediocre at both(StugIII )?

André

[Jarmo]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Andre76:

Is it better to have "specialized" tanks than "all rounders"?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Now that's a good question.

If you can choose and pick your opponents, it's good to have

the right tool for the job. But often you can't.

It's very frustrating to lose your "infantry killers" to enemy tanks

and have nothing but marders left when enemy armor is all gone.

[KiwiJoe]

Im from Auckland... never been down south

I guess it all depends if you like to buy several cheap tamks and try to use speed, numbers, and hit 'n' run tactics. Or if you like 1-2 BIG tanks and try to dominate the map and kill anything that moves.

[Andre76]

Quote:

It's very frustrating to lose your "infantry killers" to enemy tanks

and have nothing but marders left when enemy armor is all gone.

I see your point! But, it should be possible to draw forward enemy armor, hide your SP, and hit the armor with your AT weapons and then come forard with the SP again. Did it yesterday with Wesps and PanzerIV.

Quote:

I guess it all depends if you like to buy several cheap tamks and try to use speed, numbers, and hit 'n' run tactics. Or if you like 1-2 BIG tanks and try to dominate the map and kill anything that moves.

And I guess that depends on the terrain. No fun with King Tigers and lots of trees!

André

[Mannheim Tanker]

This is an interesting thread (this forum is great in that one can have intelligent conversations without flames!). I've tried buying just a few "Uber-tanks" to dominate the battlefield, but it seems to be a risky strategy. All it takes is a lucky hit to damage your gun and render you useless. I've found it best to buy one or two reliable tanks (eg Panzer IV's) and buy lots of cheaper, specialized vehicles to round out my armor complement (eg Anti-tank and mortar HT's, assault guns, etc). Those AT halftracks and Lynx's can be deadly if used properly; you just need to assign a heavier tank as their guardian

I have only tried a Hetzer once - and it died immediately. Earlier discussion, along with my experience with it, led me to believe it was junk. I may give it another try tonight in a QB. I'm assuming it's best used in the defensive role?

[Andre76]

Quote:

Those AT halftracks and Lynx's can be deadly if used properly; you just need to assign a

Yeah, if you get a Lynx or a Greyhound 'round the flanks of the enemy and start hitting the rear it really can do some damage. But, then you can't have a tank babysit it since the tank is too slow.

Quote:

I have only tried a Hetzer once - and it (...)try tonight in a QB. I'm assuming it's best used in the defensive role?

I've only used it so far in a defensive role, and I would also asume that it's far better in that role then in a offensive role.

But, then again, I can be wrong!

André

[Jarmo]

If I can afford 2 panthers, I go with 2 panthers. But I wouldn't

like to risk it with only one. That's when cheap solutions are

called for.

Of course, as allies you don't have good übertanks, so you're

pretty much forced to divide your strength.

I like Hellcat on a big map

[CRourke]

Personally, I love the hetzer. Its got superbly sloped frontal armor, and a tiny tiny sillouette. With the right hull down position, the armor slope is even better relative to incoming fire.

I too get very nervous when it comes to buying just one or two ubertanks. Too often, the entire game will be decided by their fates, which in turn can be decided by a bit of bad luck, despite good tactics.

Random question that came to mind. Does anyone know if its easier to spot tanks that are sillouetted against the sky?

Chris

[Henri]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mannheim Tanker:

I'm assuming it's best used in the defensive role?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

In one game, I sent a Hetzer forward on a road, and it destroyed a Sherman and an AT gun after the Sherman and the gun bounced three shells off the front of the Hetzer from about 200 m. I was impressed.

Henri

[PzKpfw 1]

Stug's don't last long in CM, the Germans found deploying them covering a straight aproach, ambush position, or in an area where they could engage at 600 - 1200ms worked best in Normandy because of their lack of a turret.

Stug's in Russia were credited with the destruction of over 20,000 AFVs. The Germans also used Stug's agressively in the east, quite a few Iron Cross's were handed out to Stug crews for counterattacking and destroying Russian armored attacks. But then again quite often Stug's were the only armored support available on the Eastren Front.

Regards, John Waters

[von Schalburg]

The Stug´s main purpose in the early days was as a infantry support weapon, the early Stug was only armed with a short 7.5cm StuK L/24 gun.

The late war model (Stug IIIG) was armed with the long StuK 40(L/48) gun, and that really paid of, now it became a potentiel tank killer.

The Jagdpanzer 38 Hetzer was a real anti tank weapon and only build for that purpose.

Which you can se on it´s gun a 7.5 cm PaK 39 L/48.

And a little further information, the crew of the Stug was recruited in the ranks of the artillery, and not the Panzer, and it was one of the only ways for artillery men to distinguish themself in combat.

For more information read Panzer leader, by Heinz Guderian.

------------------

In god we trust, the rest we monitor...

von Schalburg

[Jarmo]

Ironically, that earlier Stug model would be just what I'd need.

Given it's shorter gun, It'd probably be around 60-70 points,

and would offer excellent bang for the buck in infantry support.

[PzKpfw 1]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jarmo:

Ironically, that earlier Stug model would be just what I'd need.

Given it's shorter gun, It'd probably be around 60-70 points,

and would offer excellent bang for the buck in infantry support.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thats where a StuH 42 comes in 8P. The PzKpfw III N, & PzKpfw 1V Kurtz would work to. I like useing the 251/9 cept their mortar magnets. Better yet wheres are StuPz IV's 8).

Regards, John Waters

[PatAWilson]

Hello all:

First time poster here. I've had first the demo and then the game for awhile - truly great stuff.

Anyway, I wanted to throw in my .02 for the lowly Stug. It's a great weapon for less than 100 points. As has been stated many times if used to ambush tanks it will be quite sucessful. If it's used to go head to head it probably will not be. I usually like to spot the enemy tank first with infantry and then sneak the Stug up over a rise and pop off a few rounds.

As for lack of HE I tend to agree. If I have the option I will usually boost the HE at the expense of smoke and some AP. I usually find that I never need that many AP rounds. Either I will kill the enemy tanks with about half my load or I will get killed myself. In either case usually about half of my AP load is still on the rack (or cooking off).

[Fionn]

Hey guys, you can buy three Regular StuH42s for the cost of one Panther ( it comes out within about 10 points).

Anwyays 3 x 105s firing directly into infantry positions . They'll break any infantry position quickly and for 700 points you can buy 2 Panthers and 3 StuH42s. By the time that rips into the enemy MLR nothing much is going to survive. It's a very cost-effective force. Buy 3 infantry platoons and an 81mm mortar FO and for 1100 points you've got your own potent Kampfgruppe able to take on dug-in infantry, enemy armour and operate both offensively and defensively. It's a great little Kampfgruppe.