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OK I have finally admitted it...


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I have finally admitted that I am NEVER EVER going to finish another Advanced Squad Leader scenario. Never. Period. I had a good idea earlier, but now, with this game, I know it for sure. This game is fantastic! It does not take 2 hours JUST TO SET IT UP! I love my old ASL stuff, and I will not get rid of it (even though I could use the space it takes up...) This seems to have all I wanted out of ASL. Even though I can't peek into the mechanics of the engine, I believe - mostly from what I have read here - that the same detail goes into it.

Job well done, guys!

Great forum, too!

S!

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Capt. Byron Crank, US Army

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As soon as I downloaded the CM Demo and played my first PBEM with my long-time ASL partner, I knew I was hooked. I haven't looked at ASL/VASL since. We dropped an ASL game in mid stride.

CM is the best wargame since Tactics II first hit the shelves in 1958! You can count the ones which changed the hobby on one hand;

Tactics II

Panzerblitz

SL/ASL

Kampfgruppe

...and now Combat Mission. My hat's off to BTS. You have created a great simulation and playable game. What fun, too! And yet there is so much that can yet be done. We only want everything, right now. Who can wait?

I hope you don't become discouraged by some of the posts. You can satisfy some of the players all of the time and all of the players some of the time, but you can never satisfy all of the players all of the time.

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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Crank_GS:

I have finally admitted that I am NEVER EVER going to finish another Advanced Squad Leader scenario. Never. Period. I had a good idea earlier, but now, with this game, I know it for sure. This game is fantastic! It does not take 2 hours JUST TO SET IT UP! I love my old ASL stuff, and I will not get rid of it (even though I could use the space it takes up...) This seems to have all I wanted out of ASL. Even though I can't peek into the mechanics of the engine, I believe - mostly from what I have read here - that the same detail goes into it.

Job well done, guys!

Great forum, too!

S!

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The good Captain is assimilated

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Resistance is Futile

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Guest Michael emrys

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Snake Eyes:

CM is the best wargame since Tactics II first hit the shelves in 1958! You can count the ones which changed the hobby on one hand;

Tactics II

Panzerblitz

SL/ASL

Kampfgruppe

...and now Combat Mission.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think you'd *have* to add Drang Nach Osten to that list. There might be others too, but more marginal and arguable. But DNO definitely sent the hobby off in a new direction. Until it came along, nobody believed you could make a game that big and that complex and still get people to play it year after year.

BTW, I don't really know anything about Kampfgruppe beyond seeing the name somewhere or other. Care to fill me in?

Michael

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Michael - Kampgruppe was a Panzerblitz-like computer game for the 8-bit systems. It was the first real computer wargame. IIRC it was published by SSI around 1984-85.

The monster games were a big hit in their day, but I always considered them to be the natural extension of the hex based game.

Now that I think of it, D-Day should be on the list, too. It was Avalon Hill's first hex based game. That was a BIG step forward. smile.gif

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It is easy to be brave from a safe distance. -Aesop

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Any of you guys ever tried that Commodore 64 Avalon Hill conversion of Squad Leader, "Under Fire"? That was a pretty crappy game.

How about "Up Front", the card game. Talk about abstract!

CM is THE ASL of choice. No more dice for me..........

-Ski

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"The Lieutenant brought his map out and the old woman pointed to the coastal town of Ravenoville........"

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Well said all! I think all @ BTS should be justifiably proud of this product. As close to perfection as one could reasonably expect; and from their willingness to listen to their customers, it will only get closer.

The only thing I truly miss about playing ASL is the face to face aspect. All of you old ASL-ers remember . . . putting on your best poker face as your opponent blunders into the kill zone of your HIP AT team. Or the look of anguish on his eyes when he(she?) rolls boxcars on that crucial die roll, etc etc.

Once again. Well done BTS!!

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I used to have a life, now I have CM.

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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Teamski:

How about "Up Front", the card game. Talk about abstract!

-Ski

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have "Up Front!" sitting behind me somewhere. It is very abstract. Terrain is determined by drawing terrain cards, and range is determined in relative terms like range 1, range 2, etc. You collect orders cards to give out in the orders phase, and there is a chance that your units will ignore you (hmmm...sounds familiar). It has a bit of a learning curve, and it's been around 20 years since I've last played it, but I remember that it was fast moving and a lot of fun once you figured it out.

[This message has been edited by CaSCa (edited 10-06-2000).]

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'Up Front' is a very abstract wargame. It has the flavor of ASL, but without the rules disputes. What makes it so appealing, IMHO, is the FOW. You never know what the next card will reveal. CM has that same quality, only less abstract.

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It is easy to be brave from a safe distance. -Aesop

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Guest Michael emrys

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Snake Eyes:

Michael - Kampgruppe was a Panzerblitz-like computer game for the 8-bit systems. It was the first real computer wargame. IIRC it was published by SSI around 1984-85.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hmmm, that rings a bell. Now that you mention it, I think I remember seeing ads for it during that time period.

Thanks, Snake Eyes.

Michael

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Guest Michael emrys

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Snake Eyes:

Did AH ever produce a computer game that wasn't crap? frown.gif

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, despite all its many faults, I don't think I would describe Operation Crusader as crap. In fact, there were a number of features that were fairly well done.

Michael

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CM is absolutely at the top of the all time list. Also on my list, and not previously mentioned in this discussion, are Tigers on the Prowl 2, Panthers in the Shadows, and Dragons in Mist....very basic graphics but SUBSTANCE galore!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Now now, Kampfgruppe was not the *first* computer wargame. That title would belong, I believe, to SSI's Computer Bismarck.

If you are feeling nostalgic for those old 8-bit games, there is a site where you can download most of them along with Apple II emulators. Visit

http://home.earthlink.net/~evin1/a2war/emul.htm

A game my dad programmed for SSI back in 1980 is there.

But to the "wargames that shaped the hobby" list you should certainly add the immortal Campaign for North Africa. What a dinosaur!

Nelson

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Guest Big Time Software

Hello Crank,

Thanks for the praise from you and the others. Sorry about making ASL collect dust, but it has been unchallenged for so long I think it is about time someone made a dent in it smile.gif

Kampfgruppe, for its day, was the best smile.gif Mech Brigade was based on the same engine.

Michael wrote:

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Well, despite all its many faults, I don't think I would describe Operation Crusader as crap. In fact, there were a number of features that were fairly well done.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Partly correct. It wasn't crap, but Avalon Hill had no more to do with it than it did with BTS' 3 air combat games. All AH did for these games was provide artwork, production, and some other forms of support. Snake Eyes was, I am sure, talking about games that were coded up by Avalon Hill itself. And he would be correct smile.gif

Steve

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