How will the "orders phases" work in TCP/IP games?

[Guest Ol' Blood & Guts]

Will both players be issuing orders at the same time, and then the computer waits till both sides hit "GO!" to calculate the movie file???

[Doug Beman]

You got it, OB&G. In case you were wondering, I don't think there's going to be any sort of built-in timer to ensure speedy play. However, common courtesy should be the rule (don't take 30 minutes to issue one set of orders and DON'T get up to watch a Friends rerun right in the middle of play)

DjB

[TZEENCH]

I would like to know, Im a avid laner. It shure beats the hell out of q3

And CC is getting stale

[This message has been edited by TZEENCH (edited 05-22-2000).]

[Mike D]

Any comments BTS? I'd be curious to know how this is going to work myself. I'm also wondering if you have an approximate time frame for when the LAN and TCP/IP patch will be coming out? I know your busy wrapping up things for the game release right now, so it won't be really soon for sure. I'm just trying to get a feel for if it will be a month or two, or longer? Thanks.

Mikester out.

PS: Also curious if the timer option for playing in this mode ever made it into the game since this is something that I suggested a loonnnggggg time ago. Thanks again.

[This message has been edited by Mike D (edited 05-23-2000).]

[Guest Big Time Software]

Doug is pretty much right on the money there. Both players do their Orders Phase at the same time. There will be an optional timer with different time settings. When both players have hit GO!, or have timed out, then the turn is crunched and the Action Phase begins.

What we are not sure about yet is how to handle the playback in terms of time. There are two ways and we will see which one works the best in practice:

1. Have a seperate timer for watching the playback. For example, a 1 minute timer would only allow you to watch the thing once through, 2 minutes two times or once through and another minute for replays. You get the idea.

2. No special timer but it just chews up your turn timer. So if you are set up for 5 minute turns and you replay the movie 5 times, you won't have any time left to issue orders.

The benefits and drawbacks of each should be pretty obvious. Personally, I think #1 is better simply because it avoids the potential "whhhhhhhhhaaaaaaaaa, I forgot and replayed too many times and now I don't have any orders. No fair! Start over" kind of problem

We will most likely have a different Timer for the Setup Phase since this should require more time to do up right.

Steve

[Doug Beman]

Also, Steve, there will be many many times when a movie is just so darn COOL that the player in question wants to watch again and again and AGAIN...

I know that PBEM has separate files for stuff, so you can save a good movie for later, but TCP/IP won't (right?) so once you're at the end of the movie and hit DONE, it's relegated to your memory. That would be something on The List: the ability to save TCP/IP movie files for later viewing.

In short, I say do the "separate timer" thing so you're not punishing people for watching really good turn movies by cutting into their orders time.

DjB

[Guest Ol' Blood & Guts]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Big Time Software:

What we are not sure about yet is how to handle the playback in terms of time.

Steve<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, that was the another of my concerns as to how to handle the playback, after Doug's answer.

I my opinion. Is to allow unlimited time in orders phases. Because with the group moves, I really don't think that is an issue any more like it was in the Beta, especially the first move and set-up.

Then as for play-back, allow, oh I don't know, 4-5 minutes. But then of course, once both players hit "Done" then back to orders phase.

I really don't think that it will be a problem. As far as time delay goes. Hell, we can all put up with PBEM games. Yes, except for the poor people that have to pay for every minute that they're on the net.

Over-Seas ISPs, Wake up!!

[Mike D]

Steve/BTS,

Please go with option 1 and the separate timers. And, a hearty thank you for putting one in at all. I think this shall make for a very interesting way to play the game. Kinda of quasi real time type of action if you will.

Regards,

Mike D

aka Mikester

[TZEENCH]

I think that it should a setting that you can change in the begining phase o fthe game- have them agree on who the time will be used if at all.

I rember the grand days of Moo2 and waiting fo the lazyguys in the other room to finish there turn. (zzzz.z.zzzz.z.z Damm its a new turn)

If i were to implement this i think that a no time limt should be set, Hitting done when complete should be the quickest and easyer thing to do.

Mabe if you had to time it mabe up to ten minutes for the setup and first orders- Lots of planning time. Each action turn is 5 minutes max -Watch the whole thing with some replays at diffrent points/views. Time for orders mabe 5 minutes or so.

My 2 cents. And i hope the Full game movie will be implemented by that time.

[Guest Scott Clinton]

As long as the timer is optoinal I would vastly prefer:

> 2. No special timer but it just chews up

> your turn timer.

This would more 'realistically' portray the actual 'orders process' IMHO. You have to digest info, determine your orders and plot them all in the same 'phase' (ie its not divided in real life). How you divide that time up is up to the player. I personally veiw the move only once or twice at most, but I take my time plotting moves.

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Please note: The above is solely the opinion of 'The Grumbling Grognard' and reflects no one else's views but his own.

[Lee]

Just so long as there are a very wide range of timer settings (and

the option to have no time limit at all) so players can allow for

plenty of time to make turns (20 min or more) or faster turns, whichever

they prefer.

Also, I think the replay timer for watching movies should be seperate

from the orders timer. And a seperate timer for the setup phase, which

can rtake a long time to get right. I think the players should always

have the option to have no time limit on any phase of the game, if

they choose. So, you might have no time limit on setup, a 10 minute

limit on orders and a 5 minute limit on movies. Or any other

combination the players may choose.

[iggi]

I think there should be only one timer. The game should not try to help a player in using good judgement. Turn based games already give a player peace of mind to think, at least allow for inattentiveness.

[iggi]

Different timer for the set up phase though.

[TZEENCH]

Also will there be a option to select what ip you are trying to connect to? (Dsl,Local Tcp/ip number, Esc.)

[Mike D]

I would like to see the separate timer for the set-up phase as well. In fact, I'd go so far as to say there shouldn't be one during set-up phase. But if there is, it should definitely be separate from the one's used during actual play of the gamer.

Mikester out.

[Bullethead]

I favor separate timers for orders and movie viewing. I also favor the ability to set the time limits for each phase (set-up, orders, and movie) separately rather than have them all part of a package deal. IOW, I don't want an "Expert" option that simultaneously sets set-up to X minutes, orders to Y minutes, and movie to Z minutes.

I'm particularly concerned with the set-up time. I find I can easily spend an hour on the set-up phase if I've never played the scenario before. Sort out my units to see what I have, then do a thorough job scoping out the terrain to find its key features, avenues of approach, LOS in key areas, etc.

Maybe there could be an option to do the set-up phase offline so players could do all this and save it beforehand. In fact, this would have other benefits besides preventing using gaming session time for set-up. You could save set-ups for a scenario and use them over and over, thus saving beaucoup time over the course of many future games.

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-Bullethead

jtweller@delphi.com

WW2 AFV Photos: people.delphi.com/jtweller/tanks/tanks.htm

[Guest mch]

I think that there's another important issue

for TCP/IP play....a RESUME/SAVE function.

I don't know how this would work,....

but,It will probably be a most important feature.I could esp. see the Ladder guys wanting this one...

[Mike D]

This whole discussion has reminded me of something else that I asked BTS about a long while back. Namely, would it be possible to program CM so that we could do the following as an example:

1) Start a TCP/IP game and play the first 10 turns.

2) Resume playing the same game via PBEM for the next 15 turns.

3) Finally end up playing the game TCP/IP again for the remaining 10 turns.

I know this might sound dumb. But my friend and I would like to have this kind of flexibility. Reason is simple. We would highly prefer to play the game TCP/IP. But due to time constraints of work, family, school, etc., the time we have to do this may be limited at times. So the ability to play the game TCP/IP when we can, then keep playing at the slower pace of PBEM, offers a great advantage in our opinion in terms of getting games played throgh to completion.

Thanks,

Mike D

aka Mikester

[oddball]

Bullethead said:

>>I favor separate timers for orders and >>movie viewing. I also favor the ability to >>set the time limits for each phase (set->>up, orders, and movie) separately rather >>than have them all part of a package deal.

...I'll emphatically second this request!

Time limits of any sort regarding the

length to be allocated for any of the

phases should be left entirely up to

those individuals involved in that

particular game.

I'll go one further and state my desire

that the option to set/change these

times should be "live". ie: whoever is

designated as the "server" can adjust

it during the game.

In allowing such, should the limits imposed

at the beginning of a scenario prove themselves to be tedious, a simple adjustment in the form of a mouse click or

keystroke(s) could make things more accomodating.

Regards,

Oddball

[BFCElvis]

For the record......I have said many times on this board how TCP/IP is THE thing I most look forward to on this game. And the option of putting a timer on the game is HIGH on my wish list. The setup phase is by far the most time consuming phase of the game and should be given special consideration.....but I gotta tell ya folks I will not be playing any of you folks who need an hour for setup or 30 minutes for each orders phase. Ya might as well play PBEM at that kind of pace. I played VoT the first time in about 2 1/2 hours (won pretty good too, German surrender) and that is the amount of time I anticipate playing a TCP/IP game in. When the game is going at that kind of speed is when the immersion and tension are at the highest for me. And from a realistic point of view, real soldiers in combat do not get to step back and plan the next minute of thier lives with as much time as some of you guys say you are using to plot.

Wow...didn't mean the post to be this long.

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"Tryin to be so so bad is bad enough, don't make me laugh by talkin tough" EC

[SS_PanzerLeader]

I'm with ya on that one Elvis I'm looking to play TCP/IP games in an evening not a lifetime ;P

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SS_PanzerLeader.......out

[Mikeydz]

I vote for seperate setup, orders, and replay timers. One question on the replay timer, though. Will the clock be running on the replay timer full time, or only while the replay is running. I would vote for the replay timer to only run while the replay is playing.

[Guest mch]

It really seems to me that turn and movie time would be agreed on by opponents before play.I don't think a timer would really be

a necessity.a resume/save function on the other hand.........I couldn't see anyone wanting to play TCP/IP at all without that.

[SS_PanzerLeader]

Timer is an absolute must, TCP/IP wouldnt be any different than playing ICQ without it and it would really be a BIG bummer. I'm glad they are making provisions for it, as not all of us want to play super long games all the time

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SS_PanzerLeader.......out

[Guest mch]

I was assuming there would be a "chat"

feature so players could communicate

during the phases of the game.

will there be?