David Stone Posted July 18, 2000 Share Posted July 18, 2000 Been reading alot of books lately, and I keep getting the impression that CM crews are too numerous? Meaning-- do too many crew members survive their vehicles being knocked out? I do not think I have ever seen a crew totally eliminated from a vehicle hit... Just Thinking Stoner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Germanboy Posted July 18, 2000 Share Posted July 18, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by David Stone: I do not think I have ever seen a crew totally eliminated from a vehicle hit... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I think catastrophic explosions often do the trick. Seen it a few times. ------------------ Andreas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Stone Posted July 18, 2000 Author Share Posted July 18, 2000 Yes, that crossed my mind... My Video Card cannot handle the high resolution stuff. Dang, I need to upgrade! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark IV Posted July 18, 2000 Share Posted July 18, 2000 You should buy more Shermans. No annoying crew residue, though a somewhat bitter aftertaste. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Shaw Posted July 18, 2000 Share Posted July 18, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>No annoying crew residue, though a somewhat bitter aftertaste.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Do they baste great, or just less killing? Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott C Posted July 18, 2000 Share Posted July 18, 2000 I've had a Sherman catastrophically explode, then disgorge 5 unwounded crew members. It also seems to me that crew survivability is too high, almost never are more than 1 or 2 lost, even when it's a Sherman nailed by a KT at a couple hundred meters. ------------------ Questions, comments, arguments, refutations, criticisms, and/or sea stories? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TankDawg Posted July 18, 2000 Share Posted July 18, 2000 HI, Yes, too many crews in CM. I play many WW2 tactical board games and crew survival is very rare. Should be a simple fix for 1.04. Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted July 18, 2000 Share Posted July 18, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TankDawg: HI, Yes, too many crews in CM. I play many WW2 tactical board games and crew survival is very rare. Should be a simple fix for 1.04. Jeff<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Hmmm... Jeff, I'm not qualified to say whether or not the numbers of tank crew members running around sans tank is too high, but it does sound rather strange to base "reality" on the research of other game designers. I've found many of the wargames that I've played to be based on some rather flawed ideas. Steel Panthers, even though I enjoyed it, is one of these. After a few games of Steel Panthers, I realized that German Armor was the king of the battlefield. Nothing could stand against it. Not only that, but they must have won the war... Imagine my frustration when I try Combat Mission and discover that my invincible armor is all too vulnerable to enemy fire. Hopefully someone who has done the necessary research will chime in with some better data on crew survival. -Lurker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt.Rock Posted July 18, 2000 Share Posted July 18, 2000 I for one can say that I have lost entire crews with their Shermans, and the entire squad that was embarked at the time. Goes to show that you should dismount in a known safe area. ------------------ The more you sweat in peace the less you bleed in war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gaffertape Posted July 18, 2000 Share Posted July 18, 2000 In my current PBEM I've had all four of my Shermans knocked out (am I a good player or what?). Only two out of the four tanks had some crewmen live. The two other crews never even got to the hatches. None were catastrophic explosions. On the other hand, in another game I lost two trucks to incoming fire and in both cases the squads emerged unscathed - not even alerted or shaken. GAFF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Germanboy Posted July 18, 2000 Share Posted July 18, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by gaffertape: On the other hand, in another game I lost two trucks to incoming fire and in both cases the squads emerged unscathed - not even alerted or shaken. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Just a guess, but that could be b/c trucks are so easily damaged that there does not need to be a big threat in the vicinity. ------------------ Andreas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierTreadHead Posted July 18, 2000 Share Posted July 18, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by David Stone: Been reading alot of books lately, and I keep getting the impression that CM crews are too numerous? Meaning-- do too many crew members survive their vehicles being knocked out? I do not think I have ever seen a crew totally eliminated from a vehicle hit... Just Thinking Stoner <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I just finished "Strike Swiftly" a history of the 70th Tank Battalion. According to this book, it was not at all unusual for most of the crew members to survive a knocked out tank. Most casualties seemed to be inflicted by small-arms fire as the crew bailed out of the vehicle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldgamer Posted July 18, 2000 Share Posted July 18, 2000 The mention of crew survival made me think of ASL. I'm fairly certain that in many other games crew survival is actually modeling the ability to spit out an inherent crew with even a modest amount of fight left in them. If only 1 or 2 crew members survive, the entire "unit" is written off. Makes for less dirt. It seems to me that CM models the ineffective nature of a lightly armed crew through the use of "!", thus making the crews very brittle to any future contact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurtz Posted July 18, 2000 Share Posted July 18, 2000 But...but...! Crews are essential for the counteroffensive and for clearing the woods and villages from those pesky anti-tank teams.!!! And dont forget, they give the Tiger crews something to do during lulls in the fighting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted July 18, 2000 Share Posted July 18, 2000 EVEN before "Wet stowage" versions of the Sherman became available on average only 1.3 British crew were lost ( and that includes both dead and severely wounded) per tank destroyed. Basically, in CM terms, about 75% of each crew SHOULD survive their tank being hit. If the explosion is catastrophic then the odds of them all dying ar higher obviously but basically people are expecting too many crew casualties due to other games/incorrect understandings of history. Most of the the time most of the crews got out of most of the tanks. That's the rule of thumb you should remember. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henri Posted July 18, 2000 Share Posted July 18, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Kurtz: And dont forget, they give the Tiger crews something to do during lulls in the fighting.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Their most useful purpose is to serve as decoys to distract enemy Tigers while their own tanks sneak up on them. "Oh Yoo-hoo, Mr Tiger?.. Bet you can't catch me! Ha, you poor excuse for a German, you couldn't hit the side of a barn, I bet. Ten to one you can't catch me while I run through that open space "... Henri [This message has been edited by Henri (edited 07-18-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Stone Posted July 18, 2000 Author Share Posted July 18, 2000 I guess my original idea is somewhat skewed or inaccurate. In CM, you "see" the crews and take notice of them as an active units. In the real world, maybe crews did survive alot; and I am just used to other games that disregard them as ineffective. Like so much in CM, results vary widely-- which ties to the manual's opening page quote. Guess I need to play more tank heavy scenario to get the full effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark IV Posted July 18, 2000 Share Posted July 18, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Joe Shaw: Do they baste great, or just less killing?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Laff for the day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoker Posted July 19, 2000 Share Posted July 19, 2000 Henri's right on the money. I think when purchasing units we should be able to buy the crews without their vehicles. Much, much cheaper and just as effective against Mr.King Tiger if employed properly. ------------------ Smoker out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Posted July 28, 2000 Share Posted July 28, 2000 I have found this in the New Vanguard series no.33 on page 39. The poor armor protection of the M5A1 resulted in a higher rate of crew casualties than in medium tanks, with a medium tank crew having about a one-in-five chance of becoming a casualty when their tank was knocked out, compared to a one-in-three chance in light tanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airborne Posted July 28, 2000 Share Posted July 28, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by HoosierTreadHead: I just finished "Strike Swiftly" a history of the 70th Tank Battalion. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Not a bad book, considering the author was a cook in the 70th! How come there are no cooks and other REMFs running around CM armed with potato peelers and skillets? ----------Chris ------------------ Land Soft--Kill Quiet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mensch Posted July 28, 2000 Share Posted July 28, 2000 happened once and only once to me.. my Mark IV was kicking ass shooting everything in sight and then it got nailed from the side by a Sherman... so Im expecting the crew to bail out of the flaming BBQ mobile but none came.. brought a tear to my eye cuz they had a kill list over 10 lines long... *sigh* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IntelWeenie Posted July 28, 2000 Share Posted July 28, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Airborne: Not a bad book, considering the author was a cook in the 70th! How come there are no cooks and other REMFs running around CM armed with potato peelers and skillets? ----------Chris <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> They are in the game; you must need to upgrade your video card.... ------------------ "Belly to belly and everything's better" - Russian proverb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hakko Ichiu Posted July 28, 2000 Share Posted July 28, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Joe Shaw: Do they baste great, or just less killing? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> ROFLMAO, you sick, sick puppy. Have any PBEM slots open? I've had two games go on vacation. If you're up for it, we can discuss parameters by e-mail. ------------------ Ethan ----------- Das also war des Pudels Kern! -- Goethe [This message has been edited by Hakko Ichiu (edited 07-28-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Shaw Posted July 28, 2000 Share Posted July 28, 2000 Ah Ethan, you've been talking to Andreas and figure you've found another easy victory Actually you could have been talking to just about any of my opponents. Shoot me an email will you? I'm at the office and can't email out and I will for sure forget about it by the time I get home. Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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