Minnesota Joe Posted July 22, 2000 Share Posted July 22, 2000 Okay so I just ordered CM yesterday so its in the mail. I was wondering if Allied .50 cals can take out German armor like it could in CC2. I have seen this happen many times while playing CC2 on veteran difficulty and found these MGs to be more effective against most German tanks/vehicles than bazooka teams. I dont know if this was just a glitch in CC2 or if it is a historical fact. Anyway, does it happen in CM? Also- I was told that I need at least one patch for CM or else the explosions would look like sh*t and other stuff. Is this true? And if so, where can i download the patch(es). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eridani Posted July 22, 2000 Share Posted July 22, 2000 Hey Joe, welcome to Combat Mission. a Ma Deuce (.50 cal) can penetrate approx. 20 mm of armor, making it an outstanding light armor killer (and even some german medium armor from the sides and backs). It really is a fantastic gun if used right. Just think of it as a fully automatic anti-tank rifle (Which is what it was designed as apparently) For more information do a search, there have been several EXTREMELY informative threads on the subject. Yes there is a 1.01 patch currently out and a 1.03 patch on the way. The patch can be found on both cmhq and battlefront.com. Again, a search will yeild more valuable information. -EridanMan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mirage2k Posted July 22, 2000 Share Posted July 22, 2000 They can and they will. Since I don't have the game yet, I'm not sure about the .50-cal's effectiveness against "light tanks," but I know that they can disable halftracks and other vehicles. As for the patches...if you just ordered CM then it should come as version 1.02. A patch for version 1.03 is currently being worked on. So no, you won't need a patch to "fix" the explosions. -Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
von Lucke Posted July 22, 2000 Share Posted July 22, 2000 Lemme put it this way: Whenever a German AC or HT takes fire from a .50cal, the TacAI hits reverse gear as fast as (in)humanly possible... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minnesota Joe Posted July 22, 2000 Author Share Posted July 22, 2000 Hey Thanks! I loved CC2 and CC3 so i figure that ill love this game too. And the way i figure it, the "tactical pause" is more realistic than full RTS because your troops couldnt possibly get commands as quickly or accuratly as they could in the CC games. Oh one more question- Is it possible to make your own Omaha beach scenario? Landing craft wouldnt be neccessary, you could just start your troops out on the beachead. And since theres barb-wire, pillboxes, and mortar teams and other artillary, this would make a great scenario. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick_Oz Posted July 23, 2000 Share Posted July 23, 2000 I had the very satisfying experience last night in a Quick Battle against the AI of ambushing a German HT with my solo jeep..scouting far ahead of my advancing lines. Just hid behind a hedge and took him out quite easily with machine gun fire into the side armor. I hadn't realised that a jeep would be so effective. And boy was it fast! I then ran it around behind the German infantry and routed several squads... if only pbem was so easy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minnesota Joe Posted July 23, 2000 Author Share Posted July 23, 2000 So mabye William R. Trotter was right- 100 jeeps can take out a Tiger tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Shaw Posted July 23, 2000 Share Posted July 23, 2000 Hi Joe, good name The game does NOT support assault craft, Higgins boats, LCVP's etc. It does have assault boats but they were the paddle versions the US Airborne used to cross one of the rivers in Market Garden. And somebody already tried the 100 Jeeps vs. Tiger thing with CM ... the final score was something like Tiger 69 Jeeps nothing I don't know what happened to the other Jeeps but one of the nice things about CM is that you could create that scenario yourself in about 5 minutes. Finally, I love the HMG Jeep. It has zero survivability but man it looks cool zooming around and that 50 cal is nasty ... if the Jeep survives. Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minnesota Joe Posted July 23, 2000 Author Share Posted July 23, 2000 I dont s'pose you can run guys over? Oh and can you see the the plane when you call in for air support? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Germanboy Posted July 23, 2000 Share Posted July 23, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Minnesota Joe: I dont s'pose you can run guys over? Oh and can you see the the plane when you call in for air support?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Hi MJ, welcome to the club. 1. Short answer is no - there have been extensive discussions, but those were before my time, so best do a search. 2. You see a shadow on the ground, rockets and tracer coming in and targeting lines emanating from the victims, err, targets. There is a very informative article about this either on CMHQ combathq.thegamers.net or the CMHQ Annex (link from CMHQ). Enjoy the game. ------------------ Andreas [This message has been edited by Germanboy (edited 07-23-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moriarty Posted July 23, 2000 Share Posted July 23, 2000 Re: air strikes And if you're very fortunate you see the shadow, the tracers and the explosions as an AT gun in a tricky (read that, nasty) location gets blown to bits so you don't have to assault the location. hehe. ------------------ K.I.T.D. F.O.H.S. [This message has been edited by Moriarty (edited 07-22-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximus Posted July 23, 2000 Share Posted July 23, 2000 HELL, .30 cal MGs can take out Pumas! Unless my Intel was fogged over. ------------------ "I for one, am pretty damn close to Genius"--Ol' Blood & Maximus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest herbjorn Posted July 25, 2000 Share Posted July 25, 2000 What about the MG42 heavy machinegun? Could it do the same job as the 0.50? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Germanboy Posted July 25, 2000 Share Posted July 25, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by herbjorn: What about the MG42 heavy machinegun? Could it do the same job as the 0.50?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> No. 7.92mm vs. 1.22cm is quite a big difference in punch. ------------------ Andreas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IntelWeenie Posted July 25, 2000 Share Posted July 25, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by herbjorn: What about the MG42 heavy machinegun? Could it do the same job as the 0.50?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> This brings up something I had trouble figuring out when I was (much) younger: What constitutes a heavy (or medium, light) MG? Basically, it boils down to the role it was used in on the battlefield and by which army's defenition you used. "Heavy" MGs are normally defined as used in company or battalion support and are designed for sustained fire (note the difference in ammo between the MG42 LMG and HMGs in CM). They are often water cooled, but don't have to be. They are nearly always mounted on a tripod or similar mount, sometimes with optics attached. LMGs are typically portable and (for short spells, at least) usable by one man. They normally are only used with a bipod, but can often be fired from the hip or shoulder (not recommended, no matter what Rambo does). They are typically used for company/platoon level support and are more often seen in offensive situations than HMGs (due to their better portability). Of course, some obviously "heavy" MGs (US M1919 on a tripod comes to mind) are sometimes designated as "light", but remember, it's function, not weight. So to answer "will the MG42 HMG do the same job as a .50 cal?" my answer would be "Yes against infantry, no against armor". (the .50 was, after all, originally conceived as an AT weapon) ------------------ "Belly to belly and everything's better" - Russian proverb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K_Tiger Posted July 25, 2000 Share Posted July 25, 2000 I think about the AT-Capabality from the .50cal MG...it depends on the range, if you take a closer look on this MG, you will see, it hase onle a short to med. barrel length=low muzzle veloc. compared to a "thrue" at-rifle like the PTR with 14mm and a long barrell, you must come within 30-50 meters to knock out a heavy armored vehikle like the puma and the rest of the late war sdkfz`s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eridani Posted July 25, 2000 Share Posted July 25, 2000 K-tiger Not true. do a search on the M2 for more details, but Charles has posted detailed penetration diagrams showing that the M2 can penetrate most german halftracks out to I think 500 meters from the front, and out to almost 1000 from the sides. He said the thing you have to remember is not only does each shot have 18mm of pentration capability (at 150 yards iirc) and it drops to like 12 at 500, (note, these figures are being pulled out of the back of my head, you really need to search for the exact numbers), you are also talking about spraying hundreds of these shots per turn, so the chance of penetration becomes even greater still. I have seen the Ma Deuce take out a Stug III at CLOSE range (<50 meters), knock out hetzers from flank shots at 100-150 meters, and destroy half-tracks from the other side of the map. the mg42 does not have the kenetic energy per shot to have the same penetration capabilities as the Ma Deuce. -EridanMan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paullus Posted July 25, 2000 Share Posted July 25, 2000 .50 cal fires a much heavier shell, but with a lower number of rounds fired per minute. The MG42 fires a small shell, but was built to spray an area and suppress infantry. German weapons, particularly later in the war ('43-'45) were optimized to generate the maximum amount of firepower with the smallest unit (MG34 & MG42, MP44, Nebelwhefer). Albert Speer & his cohorts realized that they could never match the allies in total production, so they would have to beat them with quality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stefan Posted July 25, 2000 Share Posted July 25, 2000 Minnesota When you get the game - try this. QB with 1000 points and pick only jeeps with 50 cal.s (make sure you've got crack drivers as this if for experimental purposes) and then buy for the axis, some stugs, lynxs hetzers, haltracks etc. (of course anything bigger and gulp...) Drive like mad, shoot like crazy and have fun. As Eridani said, Ma Deuce has a lot of punch and doing this made me have some very real rspet for that light canon! Hey! When you get the game, I will set up a PBEM like that for you - my jeep horde vs say 12 Hetzers, couple of stugs, a few ACs etc... How about it? ------------------ No battle plan survives first contact with the enemy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Shaw Posted July 25, 2000 Share Posted July 25, 2000 Just as a follow up to the 1 Tiger vs. 100 Jeeps test, I created that scenario to see for myself what would happen. In fact, the Jeeps would fire IF the TC was exposed, this obviously forced the TC to button up. After that I couldn't make the Jeeps fire the HMG regardless of their position to the Tiger. I'm guessing that since the HMG would not penetrate, the game just ignored any fire orders. But 100 Jeeps racing around looked really cool ... Joe [This message has been edited by Joe Shaw (edited 07-25-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TankDawg Posted July 25, 2000 Share Posted July 25, 2000 Joe (Shaw), You are a sick, sick man. Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Shaw Posted July 25, 2000 Share Posted July 25, 2000 Hell Jeff, that's nothing, I was trying to figure out a way to create completely unarmed troops so I could do Rorkes Drift from the Zulu Wars But the silly little people will still have grenades so ... And then there was the Snipe Hunt scenario, 6 Elite Waffen SS Snipers vs. a Green British Infantry Company on a tight time schedule. Not to mention the Surf's Up scenario ... Seriously, the scenario editor is very powerful and while it won't let you do everything you might like, it can be used to test some interesting situations. Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Germanboy Posted July 26, 2000 Share Posted July 26, 2000 Looks like you got bored since we finished our little infight. Sorry I will be away, but we will have a rematch, promise. ------------------ Andreas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guachi Posted July 26, 2000 Share Posted July 26, 2000 For some reason, this question has come up a lot recently. This is a penetration chart of the M2 vs a German halftrack and an MG42 vs a M3 halftrack. The chart was made by Charles over a year ago. Jason [This message has been edited by guachi (edited 07-26-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renaud Posted July 26, 2000 Share Posted July 26, 2000 So, keep your halftracks at about a 30 degree front oblique angle to the mg's! Oblique angles advantages apply to most all armor of course... Ren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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