Guest dirkd1976 Posted July 13, 2000 Share Posted July 13, 2000 I heard a rumor that a movie about the sniper battle in Stalingrad between Russia's Vasily Zaitsev and Germanys Heinz Thorvald was going to be made. This just may be a wild rumor, or maybe not. Has anyone else heard anything about this? ------------------ Never mistake motion for action - Ernest Hemingway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWIIRulz Posted July 13, 2000 Share Posted July 13, 2000 Yes I heard the same thing. I remember reading an article on it. Im sure it will be made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackhorse Posted July 13, 2000 Share Posted July 13, 2000 It's called Rattenkrieg and will be released in the Fall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dirkd1976 Posted July 13, 2000 Share Posted July 13, 2000 Rattenkrieg? Sweet!! Do you know where I can find some more information on it? Actors, directors, blah, blah, blah......? ------------------ Never mistake motion for action - Ernest Hemingway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgdpzr Posted July 13, 2000 Share Posted July 13, 2000 COOL! Awesome subject for a movie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackhorse Posted July 13, 2000 Share Posted July 13, 2000 http://www.upcomingmovies.com/enemy-at-the-gates.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dirkd1976 Posted July 13, 2000 Share Posted July 13, 2000 Boo yaa!! Thanks man!!! ------------------ Never mistake motion for action - Ernest Hemingway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostOne Posted July 13, 2000 Share Posted July 13, 2000 Actually, the title of the film is "Enemy at the Gates" which is also the title of a superb book on the Battle of Stalingrad by William Craig. The movie however, is not based on this book but is more akin to the novel "War of the Rats" by David L. Robbins which is an excellent novel about the duel between the two "supersnipers". The movie is not based on this novel either but is specifically about the duel that took place in the hell that was Stalingrad. It is the most expensive film ever produced in Europe at $85 Mill. US and features Jude Law (Vassili Zaitsev), Ed Harris (Major Konig), Rachel Weisz (Tania Chernova), Joseph Fiennes (Danilov), Ron Perlman (Koulikov) Director: Jean-Jacques Annaud (The Bear, Quest for Fire, The Name of the Rose, The Lover, Seven Years in Tibet) For some undisclosed reason, the name Konig is being used to represent the German sniper Thorvald. It has a projected release date of November 10th, 2000. Ghost Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Left4Dead Posted July 13, 2000 Share Posted July 13, 2000 I did a search on the internet movie database (http://www.imdb.com) and I think I found some info on this movie. It's called "Enemy at the Gates" and is being produced by Paramount/Mandalay pictures. It's being directed by Jean-Jacques Annaud (Seven Years in Tibet) and will star Ed Harris as Thorvald and Jude Law as Zaitsev. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Left4Dead Posted July 13, 2000 Share Posted July 13, 2000 Damn..I hate it when everyone beats me to the replys Lefty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dirkd1976 Posted July 13, 2000 Share Posted July 13, 2000 Hehehehe........ ------------------ Never mistake motion for action - Ernest Hemingway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Preacher Posted July 13, 2000 Share Posted July 13, 2000 The reason the name Koenig is being used for the sniper is that Koenig was the real man's name. Robbins used the name Heinz Thorvald for his book. Historical accounts refer to the German "super sniper" as being named Koenig. Preacher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mannheim Tanker Posted July 13, 2000 Share Posted July 13, 2000 Cool! I just bought that book...didn't realize there would be a movie (the books are usually better anyway in any case). Does anyone remember another book on Stalingrad called, uhm "Stalingrad"? I remember reading it in early high school for a book report (my choice!). It was a rather grim book, but quite well written IIRC. I'd love to read it again, now that I have a lot more background knowledge on WWII, but I can't remember the author. I'm sure that it's out of print, so I'd probably have to find a used copy. Does this ring any bells out there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasToast Posted July 13, 2000 Share Posted July 13, 2000 There's a "Stalingrad" by Theodor Plivier (1966) that fit's your description of grim, maybe that's the one you had in mind? I did notice that another "Stalingrad" by Anthony Beevor has been released recently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostOne Posted July 13, 2000 Share Posted July 13, 2000 Preacher...do you have a reference for Koenig? All the accounts I've read including "Stalingrad" by Anthony Beevor refer to SS Colonel Heinz Thorwald or Thorvald. Ghost Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Scott Clinton Posted July 13, 2000 Share Posted July 13, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>...two men amidst the ruins seeking to put a bullet in the other's skull. Meanwhile, the sniper is also competing with a party official (Fiennes) for the love of the Russian-American female sniper, Tania Chernova (Weisz). <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> God, I hate 'Hollywood'. ------------------ Please note: The above is solely the opinion of 'The Grumbling Grognard' and reflects no one else's views but his own. [This message has been edited by Scott Clinton (edited 07-13-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mannheim Tanker Posted July 13, 2000 Share Posted July 13, 2000 Texas Toast: Thanks for the info! I believe the book in question was written in the 60's, so that's probably it. Now that I have some authors to go with the title, I'll hunt it down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt. Kije Posted July 13, 2000 Share Posted July 13, 2000 I'm reading the book (War of the Rats, by David Robbins) right now and have to say it is good. Not great. There's way too much Hollywood already in the book. The passion of the beautiful partisan (Tania Chernova) and how it burns even more fiercely in the presence of the great Russian sniper Zaitsev. "That's the way of the taiga," he whispered. He moved above her, sliding his knees between hers. "The animals mate." He lowered himself. "Then they hunt." Pretty cheesy writing. I shudder to think how the film is going to handle that theme. With regards to CM, a reading of the book is somewhat helpful. You'll be much more likely to include sharpshooters in your Quick Battle expenditures. One thing that may become an issue for BTS is whether CM sharpshooters are given sufficient vision ability. Remember, these guys were looking through scopes and looking for leaders. The question is going to be, "Should a sharpshooter unit be able to detect that an 'Infantry?' generic marker is really a Platoon HQ or Company HQ at 500 yards?" In the book, a good sniper can make a head shot reliably at 350 yards. The elite at 400 or even 500 meters. I'd say if you can make a head shot, you can tell that you are shooting at a Platoon HQ, not an Infantry Squad. But the book is clearly a broad stroke fictionalization and I'm not advocating using it as a reference. Anybody have good stats on real WWII 'average' snipers? Should they be able to see a Company commander at 400 yards, even if they can't take him out? 500 yards? Lt. Kije [This message has been edited by Lt. Kije (edited 07-13-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mannheim Tanker Posted July 13, 2000 Share Posted July 13, 2000 IIRC the sharpshooters in CM are not to be confused with true snipers. A search on "sharpshooter" should come up with BTS's thoughts on this topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Formerly Babra Posted July 13, 2000 Share Posted July 13, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mannheim Tanker: A search on "sharpshooter" should come up with BTS's thoughts on this topic.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Along with 5,000 other posts unfortunately. ------------------ It's a mother-beautiful bridge and it's gonna be THERE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreghorn2 Posted July 14, 2000 Share Posted July 14, 2000 On a historical note, Zaitsevs' final total of 149 was not the highest achieved by those practicing the fine art of 'sniperism' in Stalingrad. Official Soviet records show a man identified only as 'Zikan' was credited with the remarkable number of 224 kills by 20 Novemeber 1942. Yours, Dreghorn2 ------------------ 'A mans greatest pleasure is to crush his enemies, sweep them before him, to take from them that which they possess, to see their women and children in tears' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarDog Posted July 14, 2000 Share Posted July 14, 2000 I have to second GhostOne's opinion of "Enemy at the Gates" by William Craig as a Superb book.It has been a number of years since I read it but, I remember it as very powerful.What an epic movie it would make.If you can lay hands on it-do so-an excellent read. ------------------ Cry Havoc!and let slip the dogs of war Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Preacher Posted July 14, 2000 Share Posted July 14, 2000 I would love to, Ghost, but it seems i have lost my mind, my memory, or both. I cannot for the life of me remember the reference...I recall reading the story several years ago. Seeing the Robbins book piqued my interest because of the vague recollection i had of the story. After reading the book and loaning it to a friend (who read it in two nights!), i went back to re-read the historical account of the event. **Memory Fade Mode On** It was in that re-read that i discovered the reference to a Koenig. I even remember telling my friend that the real name of the sniper was Koenig. In addition, Robbins mentions that Barbarossa began July 22 instead of the correct June 22 **Memory Fade Mode Off** Maybe i'm just crazy...I'll keep looking Not afraid to eat crow here. Just cook it first. Also, my copy of Beevor's book has only a brief mention of the "supposed" incident. Where in that book is Thorvald mentioned? Thanks, Preacher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guachi Posted July 14, 2000 Share Posted July 14, 2000 The following threads all deal with the modeling of sharpshooters in CM (I checked them to make sure): http://www.battlefront.com/discuss/Forum1/HTML/000110.html http://www.battlefront.com/discuss/Forum1/HTML/000548.html http://www.battlefront.com/discuss/Forum1/HTML/000659.html http://www.battlefront.com/discuss/Forum1/HTML/000921.html This last thread is the best of the bunch. Jason (and the searchonauts) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Los Posted July 14, 2000 Share Posted July 14, 2000 A few sniper notes. A good rifle and scope and more importantly a experienced sniper can make shots out pretty far. When we first got our M24s in (Sort of an accurized remington 700) we went out to the million dollar range up at Devens and with my team sergeant as a coach (himself a Vietnam sniper during his third tour with a kill out to 1100 yards) was able to drop targets out as far as 900 meters with a couple shots and a spotter, which is how snipers work for real. (Now I haven't been to sniper school but I am a very experienced shooter.) re: Making head shots and all that crap that's all pretty much movie bull****. While it's true police snipers concentrate on headshots normally they are training at range of 100 meters and under but working on a VERY tight shot like the size of a playing card since their scenario is to train for the guy holding a gun to someone's head or some other "no leeway" type of shot. That's not to dispel that a a headshot could not eb made at 350 yards or even more though it's certainly not advisable unless you have had such a plethora of targets, opportunities and most importantly luck to have lasted long enough to have gotten the measure of your skill and your rifle under combat conditions in various climates in an area that you have had time to become familiar with. (Note: all of these conditions could have been met a Stalingrad.) Military snipers generally go center mass particularly at longer ranges. Anything over 600 meters generally requires "kentucky windage" (Mental if not actual) due to atmosheric conditions and what not, regardless of optics so that kind of accuracy trying to go for a head shot is neither necessary (most sniper rifles are powerful enough to kill or incapacitate a man even with body armor without hitting him in the head) nor wise, since the risk of missing the first shot could potentially have serious consequences. Also snipers very often require multiple shots to drop their targets even good ones particularly at long ranges and under combat conditions. (Though they'll never admit that around a bar.) Los Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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