TeAcH Posted May 22, 2000 Share Posted May 22, 2000 I know we all talked about this awhile ago when the topic was brought up about the game giving too much information to your opponent when your armor is hit. But here I go again. Why is immobilized armor announced to your opponent? I think this is in direct conflict with the "Fog of War" principle that BTS and CM prides itself on. Here's an example of how it hurt FOW. I was in a VOT game as the Germans with my Panther on the hill. The US player had his Shermans rolling down the road in the valley area when he hit two mines. Once I saw that his tanks were immobilized and in poor firing positions, I used my Panther elsewhere knowing that I could work on them later. This IS NOT something that should be available to your opponent. Please take this out of the game. And while your at it, turn off detailed hits to opponent armor. Let that only be visible when your armor is hit. So say for example I fire at a Sherman and he fires at me. We hit each other. I see that I hit his turret....he sees that I hit his turret with penetration and gun damaged. He hits me and he sees Hit Treads/Tracks..I see hit treads immobilized. Please enable this. TeAcH [This message has been edited by TeAcH (edited 05-21-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAEZ Posted May 22, 2000 Share Posted May 22, 2000 I could be wrong but I think you can toggle this by pressing shift-D good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juju Posted May 22, 2000 Share Posted May 22, 2000 No PAEZ, you're not wrong. I played a PBEM game once and my opponent's Tiger got bogged down. The option was off, and until the end of the game I kept wondering why my opponent didn't move that tank of his into a better position. ------------------ Combat Axiom #49. It could be worse. It could be me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All American Posted May 22, 2000 Share Posted May 22, 2000 I have to disagree with you, you can tell in real life if you have immobilized a tank because you would be able to see a broken thread or maybe busted wheels. Same as you could see a gun was brken because it was shot off or bent. However, this can't be depicted in the game because the tanks can't be that detailed, so it would be depriving the player of knowledge that he would know in real life. Also, you don't always know all the damage you've done when you hit a tank. BTS said ealier in a post that a tank gun could be damaged by a penetration that didn't kill the tank but destroyed the firing controls or something like that. In that case, you wouldn't be told the damage was done. All American Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juju Posted May 22, 2000 Share Posted May 22, 2000 All American! It's my turn to disagree with you: If I use the 1 view (the so called real life view) I probably can't see if a track is broken at ranges of 300 meters or more (not zooming in, that is. Real life, remember). I may be too busy pressing my binoculars to my eyes all the time, if I even have them. Bullets may be raining down on me. The tank may be in a hull down position, efectively obscuring my view of his tracks. any thing can happen. Over to you. ------------------ Combat Axiom #49. It could be worse. It could be me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Shaw Posted May 22, 2000 Share Posted May 22, 2000 Well, since that part of the information can be toggled on or off at will, the only question I have is whether my opponent in a PBEM game has the same option? In other words, is that particular option and the other option toggles set by the player that starts the scenario? Joe ------------------ "Son," says I to him, "you're a Dragon. And a Dragon ACTS like a Dragon or he doesn't act at all." Smrgol, Dragon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juju Posted May 22, 2000 Share Posted May 22, 2000 I think each player toggles at will. Even if you use the option, though, you might miss things in the heat of battle. ------------------ Combat Axiom #49. It could be worse. It could be me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest KwazyDog Posted May 22, 2000 Share Posted May 22, 2000 I am pretty sure that knowing an enemy tank is immobalised isnt a defiantely thing. Sometime you know it is immobolised and sometimes you dont, depending on the situation just like in real life..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All American Posted May 22, 2000 Share Posted May 22, 2000 Yeah but what if the tank you immobilize is only 50 meters away from you (just pretend your gunner really sucks or he was jolted since you were on the move)? Would it be unrealistic to be able to see from that distance that the tank had a broken thread? Also, I'm pretty sure the gun sights themselves were magnified so if the TC is toobust to examine the enemy tank because of incoming fire, then surely the gunner would be able to tell since he was targeting the tank in the first place. While I;m not saying that in real life you would be able to tell EVERYtime, BTS does need to find a happy medium which I believe they already have since this feature is also toggle. Back to you JuJu. All American Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flix Posted May 22, 2000 Share Posted May 22, 2000 I really enjoy the debates that this game initiates. Those of us that play this game over and over again are now becoming accustomed to the accuracy instilled in it. If the game were completely accurate, we would not be able to run around the battlefield at will. This is one the premiere atractions of the game for me. I say just toggle the detailed armor hits off and go about beating the enemy. Flix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Babra Posted May 22, 2000 Share Posted May 22, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Flix: If the game were completely accurate, we would not be able to run around the battlefield at will...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Actually, I was able to locate my A/I opponents armour that way, which kinda sucked. I was just taking a look at my line from his side of the board and all of a sudden there's all these engine noises around the camera. Sure enough, that's where the tanks were. A little more panning around with the camera uncovered clusters of voices, effectively ruining his "secret" move through the woods. There were no "sound contacts" registered, just the camera (with microphone obviously) picking up ambient noise. Classic case of "TMI" if you ask me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flix Posted May 22, 2000 Share Posted May 22, 2000 Well Babra, chalk that up to OSS or French Resistance intel. Flix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted May 22, 2000 Share Posted May 22, 2000 TeAcH - normally the enemy would be able to see tracks blown off, etc. However, in the case where a vehicle hits a mine out of sight of the enemy, then the info shouldn't be shown to the owner of the mines. I'll patch that. babra - it's not supposed to work that way. You shouldn't hear any enemy engine noises, etc., until you've at least located them as sound contacts (or spotted them). Are you certain that was happening? Charles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silencer Posted May 22, 2000 Share Posted May 22, 2000 bts, or when a tank is hull-down or out of sight and it gets hit by an arty shell. Silencer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juju Posted May 22, 2000 Share Posted May 22, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Big Time Software: babra - it's not supposed to work that way. You shouldn't hear any enemy engine noises, etc., until you've at least located them as sound contacts (or spotted them). Are you certain that was happening? Charles<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Charles, Babra is right. I have noticed these enemy engine noises too in VOT. ------------------ Combat Axiom #49. It could be worse. It could be me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Sabot Posted May 22, 2000 Share Posted May 22, 2000 Charles, I too have witnessed (heard) this. I'm playing VoT and my opponent has his 105 Shermans on the hill but behind the crest (definetly out of LOS). Anyways, i panned over to his side of the map and i could clearly hear the tank engines, although i saw no tank or sound contact. In fact if i was to pan along his edge of the map at camera view #1 i could pinpoint the exact location by the way the sound would switch from one speaker to another. However, when i recieved the next PBEM turn i was unable to hear it again. ------------------ "I do like to see the arms and legs fly" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Babra Posted May 22, 2000 Share Posted May 22, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Big Time Software: Babra - it's not supposed to work that way. You shouldn't hear any enemy engine noises, etc., until you've at least located them as sound contacts (or spotted them). Are you certain that was happening? Charles<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Well I didn't imagine it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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