Pak40 Posted April 13, 2000 Share Posted April 13, 2000 After reading a wargaming article in the latest PC Gamer, I just couldn't take it any more - I had to know... So I wrote a letter to the editor in hopes of a response. I thought you guys might be interested in the article and my concerns. Here's my letter: Hi, It was nice to see an article in your recent issue of PC Gamer about the computer wargame industry's move toward small independent companies producing and marketing their own wargames. I too have noticed this trend and hope that it will bring a new crop of games and simulations to the market that don't have $$corporate influence$$, such as the unfortunate turn that Close Combat has taken. But, I have one small bone to pick with Mr Trotter. In the article he mentions several small independent companies that are producing ambitious (and most promising) upcoming wargames, but why, on God's green earth, did he not mention Battlefront.com's Combat Mission. This has to be the most ambitious and promising wargame ever produced, especially by an independent wargame company. The amount of Grognard detail in this game...errr... combat simulation is staggering. I'm quite sure that Mr Trotter is aware of this game's existence and that it is soon (May 2000) to be released. So why not give credit where credit is due? Sincerely, Jeff Roland - aka Pak40 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest KwazyDog Posted April 13, 2000 Share Posted April 13, 2000 Make sure you let us know of the reply if you get one Pak It would be interesting to know their response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobVarak Posted April 13, 2000 Share Posted April 13, 2000 I think that Steve has said that Mr. Trotter is well aware of CM. It's been mentioned in his column already, and I suspect he will devote some of his valuable space to it when it's released as well. Run a search with "Trotter" and that may clarify things. ------------------ Rob Varak Editor Site on Sound: The Web's Premier Site For Musical Discussion www.siteonsound.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pak40 Posted April 13, 2000 Author Share Posted April 13, 2000 thanks Rob, OK, so Trotter has mentioned CM in previous issues, although not much it seems. I guess my main beef was that he wrote a good article about small independent wargame companies and their upcoming releases but failed to say a word about CM. It just seems a bit odd to me. It now seems more odd since I found this quote by Steve: "Don't worry about Trotter not covering CM. He will His support for BTS goes back many years." maybe I'm making a big stink about nothing but I just had to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobVarak Posted April 13, 2000 Share Posted April 13, 2000 I don't mean to discourage you from writing the letter. You should definitely go ahead! I was surprised that he didn't mention CM in that article as well. I just wanted you to know that he was aware of the game. I think he should devote an entire series of articles to CM ------------------ Rob Varak Editor Site on Sound: The Web's Premier Site For Musical Discussion www.siteonsound.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jochen Posted April 13, 2000 Share Posted April 13, 2000 The same here in Germany. I read s lot of stories about Talonsofts Pacific Strike, CDVs Sudden Strike - What you would believe? They wrote (in those german magazines) that Pacific Strike is bad - the old graphics ..., but Sudden Strike is cool, because of the very good graphic and the deep strategic .... You know all, that Sudden Strike is really nice to look upon - but is so bad for an grognard. Talonsofts graphic is not the best, but for a grognard it´s (so i think) still an alternativ to play (editor ...). I´m so angry about those guys in those mags. No word about CM - the reason for this is, that they have no information, that they are not interested in (grognard games) - and so, i remember the days, computer games in germany were only something speciall for computer kiddis, it´s only commercial to write about games everyone want´s to play and so the mag sells enough. Nothing against commercial reasons - but, ... or no .... it´s good - cause with CM, there will be a game, that finds his fans from mouth to mouth (sorry my english) and this is the best thing a product can have. Uhhh, again, i´m so happy in this forum, cause i can see here, that i´m not alone - with my love for wargames. Greetings to all Jochen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
von Lucke Posted April 13, 2000 Share Posted April 13, 2000 und Grusse zu Ihnen, Jochen! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dschugaschwili Posted April 13, 2000 Share Posted April 13, 2000 Jochen, that's exactly why I've stopped reading game magazines. Strategic/tactical wealth and depth isn't appreciated anymore nowadays, it's all about graphics. Dschugaschwili PS: Sei deshalb nicht traurig! Kündige das Abo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest R Cunningham Posted April 13, 2000 Share Posted April 13, 2000 which magazines? I read Gamestar every month and find that it the best of the German mags. I do think people appreciate depth and strategy in their games. What they don't appreciate is grognardy detail ad infinitum. Although I don't think Sudden Strike will be a big success precisely because of its lack of depth, it does have some features you don't find in the mass of other RTS games. One thing I've never seen before is the units being immobilized after taking enough damage. I have played the demo with its accompanying disclaimer about realism and it was cute. The one mission can be completed like a puzzle. I think that will be true of the complete game and it will have limited replay value as a result. CM isn't the only game ignored in the German mags. Close Combat IV got reviewed in Gamestar but it was never previewed or listed on the Terminkalendar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomm Posted April 13, 2000 Share Posted April 13, 2000 Dear Cunningham! Do you consider Gamestar better than PC Games? If yes, maybe I should consider to switch over ... With regard to wargames ... I think we have to accept that we do not have an average taste in games. For example, Tiberium Sun is supposed to be a well-selling RTS game, isn't it?! I downloaded the demo and played it for approximately one minute. Then it got uninstalled. What a crap! Giant robots which throw rockets at each other from 10 meters distance! Very subtle! Nevertheless this game gets 10 page reviews in magazines, whereas Close Combat IV was reviewed negatively because they "could not find the soldiers". I do not know if they ever used the overview map! It is sad ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dschugaschwili Posted April 13, 2000 Share Posted April 13, 2000 Well, I don't think it's possible to make a realistic RTS that's still fun to play... Actually, the only RTS I liked until now is Starcraft. Totally unrealistic of course. But lots of fun when playing multiplayer. As far as I can see, you can get at most 2 out of the following: - Real time play - Realism - Fun The actual choice depends on personal preference. And as far as game magazines go, I don't deny that there may be a few good ones. But overall, I found it a waste of money. Just my 2 Pfennig, Dschugaschwili Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jochen Posted April 13, 2000 Share Posted April 13, 2000 Hi Dschugaschwili, hab´eh kein Abo. Kauf´mir die Dinger wegen den Demo-CDs und videos. Nett, daß Du mir geantwortet hast. Tschau Jochen (... i don´t have any Abo either. Buy those mags, cause of the Demo-Cds and movie-previews. Thanks, for answering me) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest R Cunningham Posted April 13, 2000 Share Posted April 13, 2000 Thomm, It has been a while since I last looked at PC Games but most of German mags look like they are Nintendo mags or grown up old Amigs mags that have tons of flash and not alot of substance. Gamestar has been around since Oct 97 and I picked up the first issue in Nuremberg and got it because it separated the reviews by action, strategy, adventure, sims etc. It has a good help section and tips. I think it really head and shoulders above the rest. Warning: your mileage may vary. Dschugaschwili, I don't see that those three elements are somehow mutually exclusive. Fun and realism are largely subjective. Real time isn't, but I don't think real time rules out realism or that fun would either. One can even argue that since reality isn't turn-based that real time is inherently more realistic than turn-based. You wouldn't want Falcon 5.0 to be turn based. Just because no one has made a real time game with the level of detail and accuracy of CM doesn't mean it can't be done. IIRC BTS talked about the limitations on the AI in such a set up but not that it couldn't be done. That puts us back to the fun factor. I would think most people would not appreciate such a game. They want to play Moorhuhn. Real time and fun but not realistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dschugaschwili Posted April 13, 2000 Share Posted April 13, 2000 I think these points are mutually exclusive because you just can't handle the amount of micro-management required in a realistic (that is not abstracted to a point where you can't see the "atoms" anymore) environment, or only under heavy stress that detracts from the fun. Try to restrict your orders phase in CM to one minute, and then think about how many times during the movie you would want to intervene and give new orders. It just isn't practical for one human to control dozens of them. Dschugaschwili Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest R Cunningham Posted April 13, 2000 Share Posted April 13, 2000 But now you're throwing in the scale too. Of course CM would have too many units to be realtime. That's one reason CM isn't realtime. There's no reason that having fewer units to control is less realistic. can't you imagine something like M1 Tank Platoon being as realistic if not more so than CM? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dumbo Posted April 13, 2000 Share Posted April 13, 2000 I know I always say it but... who cares? Surely nobody who has an internet connection would waste his money on gaming mags that are two months out of date when they hit the shelf and given that CM is available only over the internet... well you get the picture. I have not read a print game mag for over two years now. I get all my reviews and info from the internet which is a.) better b.) cheaper. The only thing print mags used to be able to offer was previews of games but now that customers are more skeptical of "its great and its coming soon" articles and that Previews are now more common on the net print mags are fundementally useless. This is not to say that print journlism is dead (I will always keep receiving my Economist) but gaming "journalism" is not excactly a difficult task. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest R Cunningham Posted April 14, 2000 Share Posted April 14, 2000 Some of us have to pay for the internet based on the time we spend online due to the phone charges. For us it makes sense to get a magazine that come swith two CDs loaded with demos, patches, updates, reviews, preview videos and drivers. I pay $4.50 (DM 8.90) for my magazine. Until telekom "discovers" the miracle of free local calls the magazine represents a real bargain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ol' Blood & Guts Posted April 14, 2000 Share Posted April 14, 2000 In my gaming experience, RTS games are usually fun, BUT where I get frustrated is where they fall short of the realism. Like some of us here, I downloaded and tried the Sudden Strike demo. I found the graphics to be interesting, especially the preview shots that were within the credits for the game. The gameplay looked interesting, but when the units' mortality was based on hit-points, I'm like WTF. What's up with a Tiger getting pummeled with rifle fire and getting smoked after a few seconds all about? Until, I stummbled upon the Battlefront.com banner ad on a TGN page, early this past January, I believe, and downloaded and tried the demo, I was instantly hooked on what potential this game had. Don't get me wrong, I had gone to Battlefront.com before originally sometime last summer and discovered CM in its Alpha days, and like some of you, I was skeptical at that time. (This was about the time Talonsoft's Hidden & Dangerous came out, and of course, that game is all about the graphics.) Now, after playing CM and being a part of this very Forum, I think we all realize that REALISM is very important to wargames. Cause without it, it just becomes another old game that we play for a while and delete off the HD and never play again. And with AI like we've never seen before, How can we go wrong with what BTS has accomplished here with this new trend-setting game that Combat Mission will do for wargaming what the tank did for warfare! ------------------ "I am not interested in the names of your fathers...nor of your family's lineage. What I am interested in...is your breaking point!"--Gen. Chang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Echo Posted April 14, 2000 Share Posted April 14, 2000 You took the words (or letter) right out of my mouth. I made a mental note to write Trotter after I read that article and never got around to it. Id like to know why he didnt metion it in an article that had CM written all over it (just not on the page). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dumbo Posted April 14, 2000 Share Posted April 14, 2000 Rcunningham: Yup I forgot about that. Hope the Euro telecos get with the program soon. I feel for you guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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