Maximillian Posted May 24, 2000 Share Posted May 24, 2000 Does anybody have a good link for US Bn orders of battle post-Normandy? Everybody on the web seems to like doing them for the Germans, but I can't find any for the US. Thanks, Maximillian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guachi Posted May 25, 2000 Share Posted May 25, 2000 Thanks for letting me know what side you are on. Are you looking for a generic American OOB, or something like the 1st Bn, 52nd regt on July 5 had 'X' of this and 'Y' of that? The full game of CM will have TO&E for infantry units up to Battalion level so you can just use what the game gives you. If you want to buy some TO&Es, go to http://home.fuse.net/nafziger and watch your wallet drain of cash - more TO&Es and OOBs than you can shake a stick at. In any case, here is a list of American TO&E: Inf Bn 1 x HQ Coy 1 x Hvy Wpns Coy 3 x Rifle Coy HQ Coy 1 x Ammo & Pioneer Pl 1 x ATk Pl (3 x 57mm ATk gun) 1 x Communications Pl Hvy Wpns Coy 6 x 81mm mortars 8 x .30cal MGs 3 x .50cal MGs Rifle Coy 3 x Rifle Pl 1 x Weapons Pl (3 x 60mm mortars, 2 x .30cal MGs, 1 x .50cal MG) Tank Bn 1 x HQ Coy 3 x Med Tank Coy 1 x Light Tank Coy HQ Coy 3 x M21 81mm mortar carirers 3 x M4/105 tanks assorted trucks, halftracks, jeeps Med Tank Coy 1 x M4/105 17 x M4 assorted other vehicles Light Tank Coy 17 x M5 assorted other vehicles Armored Infantry Bn 1 x HQ Coy 3 x Rifle Coy HQ Coy 3 x M21 81mm mortar carriers 3 x M7 105mm hows assorted vehicles and lots of halftracks Rifle Coy 3 x 57mm ATk guns 3 x Rifle Pl consisting of: 3 x Rifle squads 1 x mortar 1 x LMG more halftracks and vehicles than you can shake a stick at For the CMMC, the real trick for intel officers isn't what a standard unit has, it's trying to figure out what 'extras' a unit has attached. American infantry units, for instance, are likely to have a liberal assortment of armor and artillery assigned to them. Another thing, unless you happen to be an ARmy or Corps level officer, you can be rest assured that your superiors have more info on these things than you could ever really need. At least, they'd better have the info or they should be reassigned. Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
argie Posted May 25, 2000 Share Posted May 25, 2000 PEOPLE, DON'T BREACH THE FOW IN CMMC. THE PEOPLE WHO IS PLAYING CMMC IS SMART. EVERY BIT OF INFO WHICH YOU GIVE, COULD BE USED AGAINST YOU. WORST, PEOPLE WHO MAKE PUBLIC HIS SIDE OR CHARACTER IN CMMC, COULD BE BANED FROM THE GAME. BE SMART YOU TOO. Ariel yelling the same 2 times in this week Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximillian Posted May 25, 2000 Author Share Posted May 25, 2000 >PEOPLE, DON'T BREACH THE FOW IN CMMC. Asking for generic OBs of one of the sides breaks FOW? How so? Are you assuming that the intelligence officers involved in WW2 were all idiots and didn't have any of this publicly available information? Are you assuming that nobody involved in CMMC has access to a library to look up any of this information? Try to remember that we (most of us) are playing this game for *fun*, not just to win. If somebody can get any tactical advantage from knowing that I found German OBs on the web but not US, then more power to them. Perhaps you would care to explain what use that might be? > yelling the same 2 times in this week If you are tired of yelling, maybe you should try thinking first. Then turn off your caps-lock key, it's impolite. Max Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TZEENCH Posted May 25, 2000 Share Posted May 25, 2000 Breaching the FOW will ruin the game_ BUT i hope that bts will mix up the campain to be close to histroy but mabe not in the right places. . PS :i sent a email to fionn but havent heard anything back yet -Is this normal or are we waiting to get a final tally after the game is realeased? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFCElvis Posted May 25, 2000 Share Posted May 25, 2000 argie, Max is right. Asking for the American OOB could mean he is looking to see what type of units he might have OR what units he may be going up against. I myself have been trying to find the same information. You can't throw a cat without hitting the German information but the American information has been very hard to come by. I see none of this as a breach of FOW from a couple different points of view. First, I would imagine a German soldier if told he was going into battle against a specific type of American battalion would have a decent idea of what that unit would contain (FOW kicks in when it turns out to not be the type of battalion that your intell officer told you it would be). Second, since the German OOB is so avialible and not considered a breach of FOW then the same sould hold true for all nationalities involed in th egae. Just my 37cents ------------------ "Tryin to be so so bad is bad enough, don't make me laugh by talkin tough" EC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximillian Posted May 25, 2000 Author Share Posted May 25, 2000 >Breaching the FOW will ruin the game_ BUT What FOW? This is historical information that most of the more serious players already know. >i hope that bts will mix up the campain to >be close to histroy but mabe not in the >right places. AFAIK, BTS isn't running CMMC. They have enough to do on their own. As for the people who actually are running it, I'm sure that each side's leaders will want to attach support units and reorganize line units to their preferences. Nothing will end up looking exactly like the 'book' OB. >PS :i sent a email to fionn but havent >heard anything back yet -Is this normal or >are we waiting to get a final tally after >the game is realeased? You probably should have heard from one of the GMs by now. Max Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikeydz Posted May 25, 2000 Share Posted May 25, 2000 I wouldn't directly consider this a breach of FOW, because as was pointed out, it's not made clear why he is looking for this. If he said he's looking for this because he wants to know what he's up against, then obviously he'd be German, but since his reasons for wanting this info is unclear, that hides which side he's on. You can assume if you want, that because he's asking for US OOBs, he must be German, that doesn't make it true, so there is no breach that I see. On a related note, should the GM's already have contacted us with a detailed breakdown of what unit we should have? I know the general type of unit I'm commanding, but not a detailed unit composition list. Mikey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TZEENCH Posted May 25, 2000 Share Posted May 25, 2000 Damm - Havent had my whole post Riped apart and sodomized like that before ( OOWWWW ). What i was tring to say that i hope they dont use the same TOBs. Mabe mix it up a bit, Switch were the 6th panzer Div was, Esc. I wouldnt say that BTS is hosting this great event, But since fionn has been around so long it just sounded good. SO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximillian Posted May 25, 2000 Author Share Posted May 25, 2000 >Damm - Havent had my whole post Riped apart >and sodomized like that before ( OOWWWW ). Since I don't see any smiley's I'll say I didn't mean it that way. Well, I guess I didn't agree with anything you said, but I was trying to say so in a nice way. I'm sorry if I wasn't clear. >What i was tring to say that i hope they >dont use the same TOBs. Mabe mix it up a >bit, Switch were the 6th panzer Div was, Right. Personally, I don't know the exact OBs, so it will surprise me either way, but I see your point. I think that each side's leaders will make enough changes, though. Ah, of course, there is a smiley at the bottom. Well then, I'm not sorry at all! Max Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guachi Posted May 25, 2000 Share Posted May 25, 2000 I was just doing a little psych ops - I actually have no idea what side Maxmillian is on. I only know definitively which side two people are on (Fionn & myself) When I got my battalion assignment, the first thing I did was try to find out what I had under my command and what types of things I may have assigned to me. You'd be surprised at how little info there is on a Prophylaxis Awareness unit or an Armored Bakery Battalion. (Old joke) Personally, I think it is less important what I have under my command than how to use the equipment. None of us who aren't beta testers have fought a battalion sized battle and there are dozens of units that we haven't had a chance to command. Again, the Nafziger site is great. And trust your superior officers to have the info on your side ready. I've had my command assignment since Feb 14 and staff position since Mar 21 (just checked my e-mail). This has given your staff officers more than enough time to come up with all sorts of info for consumption by Bn COs and lower rank staff officers. Also, do a search on TO&E and OOB and you should get some good results as this question comes up occasionaly. If you are new to CM and the CMMC, welcome aboard! It should be lots of fun. Jason [This message has been edited by guachi (edited 05-24-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorak Posted May 25, 2000 Share Posted May 25, 2000 Guachi.... How did you get the Prophylaxis Awareness unit?? Makes my atomic armored dog sled scouting unit seem out dated. Lorak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guachi Posted May 25, 2000 Share Posted May 25, 2000 Doug Beman called Fionn a 'Slackass posterboy' because of how often he posts and I seconded the nomination. I wrote that I thought Fionn would assign me to an Armored Bakery Battalion but he assigned me to the Prophylaxis Awareness Unit. I think Doug is also in my unit (and if he isn't then I'm drafting him) Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorak Posted May 25, 2000 Share Posted May 25, 2000 ahhh... I remember now. I remember how it started.. I can't remember yesterday, only doing what they told me...told me...told me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
argie Posted May 25, 2000 Share Posted May 25, 2000 Sorry, Max. My post was most directed to Guachi than you. But is a valid advice. Even ambiguous (spelling?) statements could be missinterpreted, as actually happens. If you want some info to play CMMC, try to get it without making public for what is that info. If you only asked for OoB instead of OoB for CMMC, all this misunderstanding could be avoided. I never play to win. The fun is my only objective. But if FOW is breached in any way, half of the fun in CMMC is over. As ever, sorry by my really bad English. Ariel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
argie Posted May 25, 2000 Share Posted May 25, 2000 Last note (taking advantage from a double post): looking at my first post now, seems more like a general advice to me. Don't take personal things that aren't personal. That was only an advice, and this way must be readed (spelling?). In fact, I was thinking in to make a new thread with the same text instead of posting in this one, but it could be more unclear even. Ariel [This message has been edited by argie (edited 05-25-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximillian Posted May 25, 2000 Author Share Posted May 25, 2000 >Guachi than you. But is a valid advice. No, it is not valid advice. I was asking for information that is going to be included in the game documentation. Unless you expect everyone to burn the manual without reading it, this is not a breach of the FOW. It was also historical information. Saying that we should not discuss it is like saying that we should not discuss what type of gun the early Panzer IVs had, or telling somebody who mentions that the D-Day landings were at Normandy instead of Calais that he just broke FOW. Max [This message has been edited by Maximillian (edited 05-25-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffRaider Posted May 25, 2000 Share Posted May 25, 2000 Max. . . SHHHHHHH.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Bailey Posted May 25, 2000 Share Posted May 25, 2000 I think Maximillian was just being a good intel officer - he wants to know what he OR his enemy has... no problem in that. He didn't say: I am playing the Allied side and am interested in knowing what I will have. Maximillian, I can tell you that we are using very historical OoB's and TO&E's for CMMC. I did the German OoB myself, and I used captured archive info (I live in Wash., DC near National Archives). Nearly down to the rifle, all the weapons the Germans had historically are there. Similar detail for Allies. Because of this, units will appear that don't confirm to the "text book". CMMC should offer a good compromise between history and FOW. James Bailey, GM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
argie Posted May 26, 2000 Share Posted May 26, 2000 Sorry. Could someone please point in which post and where I said that looking for OoBs, TO&Es and Weapon and Historical Data is wrong? I'm getting confused. And again, this is not personal, Maximilian. When I red your post BEFORE Guachi makes his post, I've lamented not to have the links I have in my other computer to give it to you. Then I post an advice, in which I don't said nothing about looking for data, but warning about discover the side or the character in which everyone is playing. This isn't a personal thing. Looking for INTEL is, as James said, the best thing everybody playing CMMC could do. Making it in a way that this could be interpreted for others as revealing some data about your side of character is dangerous, at least. So I post that advice. Nobody knows your side now, maybe not for my post, but my post already exists. And (I could repeat it for ever) this is not personal. If you are in doubt please read my posts again. Maybe I could be making a mistake with my English, but I think it's clear. If not, just tell me. Ariel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFCElvis Posted May 26, 2000 Share Posted May 26, 2000 OK...all this "was someone breaching FOW, was someone not breaching FOW" has been terribly entertaining (I'm just kidding of course) but aside from the site you have to pay for does anyone have an answer to the intial question? ------------------ "Tryin to be so so bad is bad enough, don't make me laugh by talkin tough" EC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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