Pvt. Ryan Posted September 14, 2000 Share Posted September 14, 2000 The Army for the first time will align National Guard divisions with active-duty Army corps, making it more likely that part-time soldiers will ship out if war erupts in Korea or the Persian Gulf, Army officials said Wednesday. http://news.excite.com/news/ap/000913/17/news-national-guard Or maybe that is TOE fans. [This message has been edited by Pvt. Ryan (edited 09-14-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Michael emrys Posted September 14, 2000 Share Posted September 14, 2000 Given the difficulty the Army had bringing NG brigades up to the necessary training level in DS, this doesn't look like a terribly bright idea on the face of it. Might be better if the NG was reorganized to comprise support services rather than combat units if they are thinking of shipping them out as soon as the balloon goes up. As it is, I would expect them to need 3-6 months of intense training to bring them up to speed. Just another unsolicited opinion... Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teamski Posted September 14, 2000 Share Posted September 14, 2000 Guys, This system's been in place for years, with the reserves, anyways! Ever since the Gulf War, the USA has been redesignating Army Reserve Infantry Brigades as "turn around brigades" The active portion of an infantry division is primarily 2 infantry brigades and the third brigade is a reserve unit. For example, the 205th Infantry Bde out of Minnesota is the turn-around brigade for the 6th Inf Div. It used to be independant, and wore it's own patch. Well, now it wears the divisional patch of the 6th. It's all about saving the bucks.... -Ski ------------------ "The Lieutenant brought his map out and the old woman pointed to the coastal town of Ravenoville........" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CavScout Posted September 14, 2000 Share Posted September 14, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Teamski: Guys, This system's been in place for years, with the reserves, anyways! Ever since the Gulf War, the USA has been redesignating Army Reserve Infantry Brigades as "turn around brigades" The active portion of an infantry division is primarily 2 infantry brigades and the third brigade is a reserve unit. For example, the 205th Infantry Bde out of Minnesota is the turn-around brigade for the 6th Inf Div. It used to be independant, and wore it's own patch. Well, now it wears the divisional patch of the 6th. It's all about saving the bucks.... -Ski <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> 6th Infantry Div? Is that an active duty unit? The only active duty units I know of are: 1st Armor Division 1st Cavalry Division 1st Infantry Division 2nd Infantry Division 3rd Infantry Division (Mechanized) 4th Infantry Division 10th Mountain Division (Light) 25th Infantry Division 82nd Airborne Division 101st Airborne Division (Air Assault) On a side note, as I understand it only the National Guard has combat arms units, the Army Reserve is service and support for the most part and has very few, if any, combat units. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IntelWeenie Posted September 14, 2000 Share Posted September 14, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by CavScout: 6th Infantry Div? Is that an active duty unit? The only active duty units I know of are: 1st Armor Division 1st Cavalry Division 1st Infantry Division 2nd Infantry Division 3rd Infantry Division (Mechanized) 4th Infantry Division 10th Mountain Division (Light) 25th Infantry Division 82nd Airborne Division 101st Airborne Division (Air Assault) On a side note, as I understand it only the National Guard has combat arms units, the Army Reserve is service and support for the most part and has very few, if any, combat units. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> IIRC, 6 ID is only about Bde strength right now? This is one of those things that looks good on paper (hey, the Air Nat Guard does it!) but works out horribly in practice. The ANG can do it because a lot of their troops work in the aviation industry (how many NG Abrams tankers have a day job driving tanks?) and they typically practice their warfighting skills more (from what I've seen, at least). ------------------ Canada: Where men were men, unless they were horses. -Dudley Do-right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teamski Posted September 14, 2000 Share Posted September 14, 2000 My data is pretty outdated. But my patch book (yeah I collect medals and patches) puts the 6th ID at Fort Richardson Alaska. You're right about the NG: The 205th was the only reserve unit to be selected as a round-out unit for an active division. All of the rest are NG units. This all came about around 1986, though. It's not really new........ -Ski ------------------ "The Lieutenant brought his map out and the old woman pointed to the coastal town of Ravenoville........" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pathfinder Posted September 15, 2000 Share Posted September 15, 2000 Yeah, the round-out concept got trashed after Desert Storm. It took way too long to get the ARNG units "up to speed" to deploy. Currently the NG supplies combat/combat support units while the USAR supplies the others (combat sevice support, service support, etc). BTW I have served in ARNG, USAR and had 8 years active duty (total 24 years), so I do know a bit about this. ------------------ unca pathy will show ya the path, if only he could find it himself! [This message has been edited by pathfinder (edited 09-14-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Michael emrys Posted September 15, 2000 Share Posted September 15, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by CavScout: The only active duty units I know of are: 1st Cavalry Division [snip] <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Is 1st. Cav. called a division now. Last I heard it was still called a regiment, but that's been a couple of years, so I could be wrong. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CavScout Posted September 15, 2000 Share Posted September 15, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Michael emrys: Is 1st. Cav. called a division now. Last I heard it was still called a regiment, but that's been a couple of years, so I could be wrong. Michael<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Don't confuse the "1st Calvary Divison" with an ACR. cav Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Los Posted September 15, 2000 Share Posted September 15, 2000 There have been upgrades to NG combat arms preparedness bewteen 1990 and now. (Not that it's perfect but you are looking at about a 30 day prep window now, (assuming a well run NG combat arms unit). It's not like the Army sat around and did nothing between then and now to begin to rectify the situation. Also even wrt the NG roundout units prepardeness prior to DS there were many issues on the active side as well that worked towards ensuring that combat arms unit would not deploy for political reasons. After all then you would have had a major push to downgrade active combat arms units for guard combat arms units (A mistake IMO but a conclusion that would have been drawn by politicians never the less.) BTW there is currently a Texas NG division headquarters (49th AD I think but don't quote me) which is running the show in Bosnia right controlling active, reserve and Natinal guard forces) now as well as a number of NG infantry and armored bns/companies under that division (But drawn from various states) currently operating in theater. SO on that operation the Active components are working for a guard commander and command. Draw your own conclusions. Los Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
felixgrey Posted September 15, 2000 Share Posted September 15, 2000 You forgot 25th ID in Hawaii, the Alaska unit is now call the 125 SIB (Seperate Infantry BDE). -Scouts Out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
felixgrey Posted September 15, 2000 Share Posted September 15, 2000 Doh!!! Sorry about the 25th thing... Momentarily blind or something.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IntelWeenie Posted September 15, 2000 Share Posted September 15, 2000 Coincidence or a well-orchestrated conspiracy? I saw this in my email today: Survey: Longer Reserve Duty Irks Civilian Bosses http://www.military.com/Content/MoreContent?file=FL_survey_trimble ------------------ Canada: Where men were men, unless they were horses. -Dudley Do-right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19 Echo Posted September 16, 2000 Share Posted September 16, 2000 One thing about the round-out brigades. The Army's official history of Desert Storm pointed out that the real problem with this concept wasn't their readiness (there was ample time to get them up to speed), but rather the problem of activation. The divisions of Central Command, namely 1st CD and 24th ID, needed their round-out brigades when they deployed in Sept. However, for political reasons, Pres. Bush didn't activate the Guard until October (I think. Oct. 8 sticks in my mind, but I can't really remember the date). This forced the active divisions to scrounge around for active brigades to round them out (the 197th for 24th ID, while 1st Cav ended up a two-brigade division, although it had part of the 2nd AD attached to it for awhile). This affiliation between the regular Army and NG has been in place for awhile. The regular division is supposed to sort of "mentor" the NG unit, if I understand it correctly. Then there's the 49th AD, which I think is about the only full division left in the Guard. We were overseen directly by 5th Army (in 92; this might have changed). Another thing that the Army came up with was farming out regular officers to the Guard units (which has a shortage of officers). They take a state comission, but retain their regular Army rank and time-in-grade and everything, just like during the Civil War. The Guard is probably finished as a viable combat force. It's hard for units to get anywhere near full, partly because of an enormous anti-reserve/guard backlash since Desert Storm (I had a number of job interviews end abruptly when I mentioned the word "Guard"). -- Mike Zeares (this thread will get locked, which is just as well. I could go on for days about the Guard) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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