O/T - Why is WWII so fascinating ?

[Norman Wind]

This is a tough question I think.

For me I missed the end by twenty years - but twenty years is not so long. I am drawn to the era because of the intense human suffering and sacrifice during the period. I fell these few years also exhibited the baseness of the human soul and also the complexity of it. For me it it is not a question of warfare, although the "art" of war in itself is compelling. Being only a "partime semi-grognard" I cannot relate to modern conflict - it seems to lack the sense of scale.

Anyway, I just wondered what attracted you folks to WWII - or maybe you have more interest in WWI or some other conflict ????????

[DEF BUNGIS]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Norman Wind:

Being only a "partime semi-grognard" I cannot relate to modern conflict - it seems to lack the sense of scale.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Let me tell you from experience Norman.

When your ass is the one getting shot at, with some outrageous rules of engagement,

in some sorry ass under developed country,

The sense of sacle is enormous.

Dont forget because there is no scale that real lives are not being lost.

As for WWII, I think it effected me because it affected so much of my family. My grandfather, whom is still alive, went in on Omaha beach (second wave) as an artillery officer, and survived the entire war.

Thru the battle of the buldge, to Berchtesgaden. The whole spiel.

My other grandfather was a Navy under water mine diver during the war. I think, though not for sure, that this was the start for the Navy SEALS.

My grandmother made bullets and other Ordinance in the ST. Louis ammunition depot.

So I think all of this played a really big part in my interest in WWII.

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Better to make the wrong decision than be the sorry son of a bitch to scared to make one at all

[This message has been edited by DEF BUNGIS (edited 04-15-2000).]

[Norman Wind]

Sorry - didn't mean to offend - there is no getting away from the seriousness and gravity (?) of any confrontation - but as an outsider, with no experience in the armed forces whatsoever, the pull of WWII is greater than anything else.

[DEF BUNGIS]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Norman Wind:

Sorry - didn't mean to offend <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ohhh....no offense Norman.

I should have added a smiley in there.

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Better to make the wrong decision than be the sorry son of a bitch to scared to make one at all

[Agrow]

Norman,

That is a question I have had for about 2 years... what is the interest in WWII?

And WHY is it that men are only interested in it (well for the most part)?

Why do u men have this enormous fascination with war in general?

[Mark IV]

Why WWII fascinates:

1) Easy Good versus Evil themes (and clear winners/losers).

2) Surviving participants in the present day (our fathers and grandfathers, and a little bit of national jingoism that goes with that).

3) The appeal of mechanized warfare, with "cool" weapons and machines to which a modern mind can relate, and 3a) The incredibly rich variety of those machines, land, air, and sea.

4) The vast scope of the global conflict, in virtually every type of terrain and climate.

5) The appeal to gamers of a return to battles of maneuver, even with (usually) well-defined fronts. Just plumb more interesting.

I guess women aren't much interested in any war, not just WWII. Not in their genes.

I will leave the obvious and unnecessary sermons to those so inclined (war is bad, don't try this at home, except on your PC/Mac), but the above would be my guesses.

[Danno]

I was raised by my grandparents and so when I started building models of tanks in my teens, I got to hear some war stories from my grandfather. Having someone who was there able to tell you about his experience makes it much more fun and interesting to study and learn more about the whole subject. It also brings home the reality of it all because it wasn't something he would ever bring up himself, but I'm glad now that I asked and got to hear all the stories about France and how tanks sound 'bigger' when they are coming at you and how the Halftrack was not a cozy ride especially in the cold...so VERY cold I remember him telling about the bulge.

Beyond the personal connection, I just like the looks of WWII armor, uniforms and weapons and so many of them.

[von Lucke]

It was the last Great Crusade: The last war to be fought by Us (the Good Guys) vs. Them (the Bad Guys).

It was also the last good Conventional War (ie; no nukes --- well, until the last minute, anyway), and took the technology of war up to the door-step of the modern age of electronic warfare without quite stepping in.

It's vast scale also means that just about everybody on earth is aware of what happened and who the players were.

[Agrow]

1) Easy Good versus Evil themes (and clear winners/losers).

________________________________________

Ah well I have Darth Vader and Luke Skywalker for that duo

2) Surviving participants in the present day (our fathers and grandfathers, and a little bit of national jingoism that goes with that).

** Ah the father figures... ur heros

3) The appeal of mechanized warfare, with "cool" weapons and machines to which a modern mind can relate, and 3a) The incredibly rich variety of those machines, land, air, and sea.

** I was aware of that one.. my husband knows every tank.. every gun and every plane... he can look at a photo and give all the stats..

4) The vast scope of the global conflict, in virtually every type of terrain and climate.

** I dont get that one

5) The appeal to gamers of a return to battles of maneuver, even with (usually) well-defined fronts. Just plumb more interesting.

I guess women aren't much interested in any war, not just WWII. Not in their genes.

** YES! right there.. and still men try to arouse that interest in them when it is so obvious it is never going to be as interesting to us. We just don't get it.

I will leave the obvious and unnecessary sermons to those so inclined (war is bad, don't try this at home, except on your PC/Mac), but the above would be my guesses.

[Mark IV]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>The vast scope of the global conflict, in virtually every type of terrain and climate.

** I dont get that one <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Desert, farmland, urban, winter, plains, steppes, mountains, dams, jungle, islands,- more variety in terrain, more variety in tactics and toys. Very few single wars bring all that to the party. In gaming terms only, I hasten to add.

[Wotan]

I have read somewhere that war is to man as giving birth is to women. It's something hard-wired into us, and nearly impossible to explain to the opposite sex.

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I probably should of called myself S/SGT Lafayette Pool or maybe Lt Col Creighton Abrams...

[iggi]

Why WW2? Because it woke up the planet even if it was only for 4 years.

[This message has been edited by iggi (edited 04-16-2000).]

[Norman Wind]

The good/evil idea doesn't figure for me. It is perhaps easier to think of the initiators of war as evil but there is a counterside to every coin. WWII has an appeal for individuals from many nationalities.

As an aside - I am English but prefer playing wargames as the Axis & am more interested in Axis military history - why ? Not sure really, it is not just the military hardware but probably is associated with the idea of being a "conqueror" - (again prob. just a male thing). However, when playing scenarios re Normany landings I prefer to play as the Allies.

[Schorsch]

I've been wondering about my attraction to military in general and especially WWII for many a year in my life.

Most of the male kids I grew up with played with tanks and small plastic soldiers, fighting sandbox battles in 1/72 scale. This was our favorite pastime for several years and then the first computer-games came and some of us took great delight in those early SSI and Microprose strategy games, especially those in WWII settings.

I may have to add that I myself have always liked the Allied Forces much better than the Germans (and I am German), probably due to the reason that I considered the Allies to be the good ones and the Germans to be the baddies. There may be some people over here who wouldn't share that point of view with me, though.

Well, the interest relented a bit after the 15 months I had to spend in the Bundeswehr (in an artillery battallion btw., I don't know how my job there is called in English, it's Richtkreis- und Erkundertrupp in German and included mainly things like preparing and surveying the next firing position of the battery) but I still like strategy games on the computer and was stunned when I played the CM demo the first time.

I think Mark IV summed up the main points. I especially like the statement about why women usually don't like war and men do.

It definitely has to do with the genes, men are always out for competition against each other whereas women are more into co-operation.

There is some proof for that even when you look at which games are played by men and which by women. Women mostly don't like strategy games (apart from the fact that a majority of them don't like computer games at all) but they feel attracted to games like The Sims (I just read that 25% of the registered buyers are female) or adventures.

I still don't understand, though, why WWII is so fascinating especially for me, as I consider myself a very peace-loving individual. I hate the cruelty, the atrocities, the maiming, the killing, the grief that are all an intrinsic part of any war. And still, I can't get rid of that fascination.

[Username]

Its mostly cause the uniforms were cool. And because future Hollywood "directors" could make so many stupid movies. And alot of white people killed white people that killed people that they didnt like. And rich people could stay richer people. And oil still would come out of the ground. And after it was "over" there still was an "enemy" and more money could be spent on alot weapons that would never be used.

It was just the "greatest" in the history of the human race and defined the whole twentieth century and blah blah blah.

LOL. It was a stupid bunch of ****. I think its over now. The freaking europeans can get along without it.

Lewis

PS I still am fascinated by armored warfare.

[Guest -panzershreck-]

Saving Private Ryan did it for me.

[Norman Wind]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Username:

LOL. It was a stupid bunch of ****.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah maybe - but when people don't have control of their lives and end up dead it is NOT trivial.

[SS_PanzerLeader]

My grandad was in WW2 as was my uncle

I grew up playing wargames with 1/72 scale tanks and soldiers. The passion for WW2 setms from those I suppose mostly - but the looks of the Uniforms and Tanks definitely are the "coolest" (forgive the word) of all wars.

As far as choosing a side to play as I think Scrhorsh was onto something when he said this:

Quote:

I myself have always liked the Allied Forces much better than the Germans (and I am German),

I think in most cases we like to play what was the enemy at the time. any PSYCHOLOGISTS out here want to expand ? I'd like to know if I'm on to something or way off base

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SS_PanzerLeader.......out

[Miyamoto Musashi]

The first time I was ever told about WWII was when I was very (VERY) small and my grandfather told me how he lost his leg... I didn't much understand at that age what land mines were, but I sure understood the seriousness of war every time Grandpa took his wooden leg off. Not that that dissuaded me from having a fascination for the war. On the contrary, it heightened my interest in it... I looked through as many WWII books as I could when I was growing up (and have forgotten much of what I used to know). I loved movies like Force 10 From Navarone and Kelly's Heroes when I was in high school (and still do, to be sure). My grandfather never talked too much about the war, and I regret not asking him more about it now that he's gone... but I do have my memories and his Purple Heart in a case to remember him by... I think being involved with CM and doing what I can to learn more about WWII is my small way of honoring my grandfather and the others who gave everything they had... and to be honest, I think one of the reasons I and many others are fascinated with the war is that it was the last war Americans really got excited for. Soldiers going to Europe and Africa and Asia were sent off by cheering crowds and welcomed back with the same. The men who left may have been mindful of the danger they would soon face, but they went all the same... confident they were doing what was right. Plus, it helps that both sides used some of the sweetest machinery ever used in any war, bar none

[Agrow]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Schorsch:

Women mostly don't like strategy games (apart from the fact that a majority of them don't like computer games at all) but they feel attracted to games like The Sims (I just read that 25% of the registered buyers are female) or adventures.

B]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

*** That is all too true. I don't general like to play games at all and when the SIMS game came out I did play that one ... just can't get interested in blowing things up. Of course I did enjoy Wing Commander..but blowing up ships wasn't the entire interest to that.. I also enjoyed adventure games like Space Quest but other than that I just don't play. I was never very good at shoot 'um up games. I think it may have to do with hand-eye corrdination

[Mark IV]

Agrow: I gotta ask, with no malice whatsoever, why are you here? Are you exploring your husband's psyche, or is there some other element of CM you find attractive?

[Agrow]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mark IV:

Agrow: I gotta ask, with no malice whatsoever, why are you here? Are you exploring your husband's psyche, or is there some other element of CM you find attractive? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Or better yet maybe just psyco.

Trying to figure out what the big deal is.. that's about it. Trying to figure out why my husband would rather spend hours with CM then me.

Maybe I should join the military and get a few battle scars.

[Mark IV]

The "big deal" with WWII we've tried to answer above. But the lost spousal hours are best explained by the "big deal" with Combat Mission, as opposed to preceding WWII games.

Look at the screens for the games before this one, then look at the CM demo. Accuracy issues aside, it's like being there. There's never been anything quite like it. Technology, research, and hardware have evolved to the point where breakthrough levels of immersion can be achieved.

It would be nice if more women were involved, but understandable if they're not. We're into winner-take-all competition, not nurturing. We evolved to kill mammoths and protect our hunting grounds from other clans, and you evolved to raise more mammoth-killers. We select one another based on a subconscious assessment of the other's ability to perform his/her sexual role.

So your husband is subconciously fulfilling his biological imperative to kill mammoths and invaders, because real mammoths are protected.

You should not feel compelled to join him just because he is looking for a 24-hour hot seat opponent he thinks he can beat (though it would be cool if you whacked him soundly- I'm sure you would find many willing tutors here).

[PanzerLeader]

WW2 has fascinated me from the beginning(must have been about 7 years old...)

It is not only a clash beween good and evil, but more importantly for me a clash of ideologies, especially on the Eastern Front. Today is dominated by the winners, ie the anglo-saxon capitalists...It could have been very different indeed. What kind of a world would we have today if the Fascists had won in 1941? What if the Allies hadn't landed in Normandy and Russia had pushed all the way to the Atlantic?

Yep, I guess what attracts me in that whole era is the "colourful" ideologies, as opposed to our dull daily lives...So far, yet so close to us...

[Mark IV]

Agrow: Having belately realized the identity of your spousal unit, I need to add that you should indeed be proud of your subconscious selection instinct, as he has slain many mammoths... his name will be chanted in the cave-songs for many moons...