The Stormtroopers are coming!!!

[Guest Shatter50]

Episode 1 is conclusive proof that George Lucas should be institutionalized and forbidden to have anything to do with the Star Wars franchise ever again.

Sorry for the long not much related thread but some people have to learn.

For this comment you have made a bitter enemy for life. George Lucas is one of the greatest men that has ever walked this earth.

Yes I do agree with you that Episode 1 was not nearly as good as the as the old school Star Wars films.

You are a disgrace for a Star Wars Fan. Anyone who talks negatively about Lucas is no fan at all. How could a Fan of Star Wars do such a thing. As you can tell I am one of those guys who camped out to get tickets to see Episode 1. Yes I was a bit disappointed but you don't see me going off about the Master and Creator of Star Wars not mention the Force and The JEDI KNIGHT.

Go away basher you not a real fan

Yes I take my Star Wars very seriously just as CM. I believe the Force of sorts does actually exist(maybe not actually the force but I look at it that way.

Example of the Force in real life. As some of you may know I am a avid Martial Artist.

I have been taking martial arts for almost 13 years now. I hold a 3rd Degree Black Belt in Tae Kwon Do(a mostly offensive kicking Martial Art) and a 1st Degree Black in Karate (a mostly diffensive counter attack punching martial art). I like Tae Kwon Do the best as that is what I am currently taking Karate was kinda slow waiting for the attack to come. Tae Kwon Do is more Jackie Chan, Bruce Lee style, a never ending lightning furry of strikes, punches, and kicks, and to finish of with a dreaded 360 degree jumping backspin heel kick or tornado kick. Can you say dead. Sorry I am getting of track. My whole point of this post is the force has relavance in life. I have been in over 100 tournaments, tested for numerous belts all in front of a minimum of 500 people to up 5000 at a tournament in Atlanta. Well know matter who you are some point in Martial arts you will face a guy you know is mean a bsically wants nothing more than to kick your a--. Some use thier fear and others are consumed by it. I have developed a method of completly erasing fear from at least my mind. You have seen it in movies were a master or instructor tells students to focus(Mr Myiagi ring a bell). Well I have come to look upon this as using the Force after all you must be calm and aware of everything in your environment much like the force. In testing for belts and Degrees for the black belts you get 3 attemts a your break for the test.(As in Board Breaks). I take pride that I am the only student to date at my academy that has never failed a test but a I came close 2 weeks ago if it wasn't for the Force. First I had to do my Forms which was no problem then I had to take on 2 first degree black belts at the same time. I kicked butt and went on to the break. This is the first time for me to break multple bricks not mention a tricky kick in a 360 degree jumping backspin heel through 3 boards with my Master holding the boards standing on a chair. He likes to show the crowd how high I can jump. I was so nervous, I have seen at least 6 other black belts fail the kick or break their hand on the bricks. I failed the first attempt then also failed the second man I had so much fear and excitement and any other emotion flowing through me. Master Kim got down of the chair and said Focus Brett so I took a minute, sat to focusing position breathing in through nose out through mouth. Next thing I knew, I heard everything and nothing at the same time and all emotion was gone wasn't even swetting anymore even though I shoud have been. I stood up and said I am ready Sir. He got to the top of the chair again and held the boards. I looked at those boards and focused not mad not anything. Took another breath then leaped spun and wack those damn boards blew up like a small bomb flying in pieces across the Academy. Then turned 180 degrees for the bricks didn't think twice and wack right through both of the bricks with a knife hand all of the crowd cheered. So the Force or something like it is reality.

[Hamstersss]

Oh puleaze. Episode 1 and, to a lesser degree, Episode IV were proof that Lucas cares nothing about the art of storytelling and everything about the practice of merchandising. Defend Jar Jar, defend the Ewoks, defend mito-chlorians, Pod Racing and stupid book deals about 3rd rate characters that can't be killed. I say fie on Lucas, he is dead to me.

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I've got far more annoying things than that up my sleeve.

-Meeks

You must wear awfully loose shirts to fit an oompah band up your sleeve.

-Chrisl

[Guest Shatter50]

Let me ask a question everytime your favorite Sports Team is not doing good or is losing do you no longer remain a fan of that team. Well Lucas does a under expectation Star Wars Film and he is pashed after all the Expectations of Star Wars was pretty big. I agree I not sure what Lucas was thinking with the story of episode 1. Everybody screws up now and again.

Lets say Episode 2 somehow is better than Original Star Wars and everyone loves it all you guys I bet will be the biggest fans of Lucas again you guys are fairweather fans (as long as everthing is good I will cheer for you).

[This message has been edited by Shatter50 (edited 10-31-2000).]

[Hamstersss]

Utter shash. Oh and by the by I meant Jedi, not A New Hope (Episode VI not IV). This isn't about Lucas being in a slump, it's about him selling out. Episode II will be crud and even if it isn't, it doesn't make up for the embarassingly stupid Episode I and the half-corny Episode VI nor the asstacular books, comic books, lunch pails, Star Wars toilet seats or any other of the 10 trillion pieces of merchandise that make Lucas the Hutt even more rich than he was to begin with.

And for those of you who say, "Well gee, Elijah, who hasn't sold out?" I say, "Tolkien." LoTR trumps Star Wars any day.

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I've got far more annoying things than that up my sleeve.

-Meeks

You must wear awfully loose shirts to fit an oompah band up your sleeve.

-Chrisl

[This message has been edited by Elijah Meeks (edited 10-31-2000).]

[Chupacabra]

Uh, Shatter? You're taking yourself a bit too seriously there, fella.

As for your sports teams analogy? I love the Mets, I rooted for them in the World Series, but that doesn't mean I can't think they played like ass and blew it to the Yanks.

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Soy super bien, soy super super bien, soy bien bien super bien bien bien super super.

[Guest Shatter50]

Hey Meeks

I don't know how old you are bot I am 24 and basically have been a Star Wars nut my whole life I can repeat word for word with the movies New Hope, Empire Strikes Back, and Return of the Jedi, I am not kidding. I do not think this makes me a geek or weird everyone has something weird about them. Anyway I said Lucas sold out and gave example of Lucas products and everything you listed from action figures to posters and bed sheets, pajamas, T-shirts, toys I had as a kid when I was in first grade would of been 1982 and before Empires Strikes Back released 1983 to public cinemas. So to me its nothing different than the Episode IV,V,VI.

Oh yeah don't forget about the Atari game for Empires Strikes Back (Battle of Hoth)

[This message has been edited by Shatter50 (edited 10-31-2000).]

[Hamstersss]

I don't think age matters, Shatter, but I'll tell ya what I do think matters:

In 1977 Lucas was a movie director.

In 1999 Lucas was a goddamn multi-millionaire.

The man does not care about art any more, he's only concerned with money. You can see it in the quality of work and the elements of his films. I like Star Wars, I like Empire, I even like Jedi but Phantom was all Lucas the Hutt pimping his franchise for all it was worth. It was bland, boring, convoluted and dumb.

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I've got far more annoying things than that up my sleeve.

-Meeks

You must wear awfully loose shirts to fit an oompah band up your sleeve.

-Chrisl

[Guest Shatter50]

Originally posted by Elijah Meeks:

I don't think age matters, Shatter, but I'll tell ya what I do think matters:

Hey Meeks I was just giving my age to convey that I grew up with Star Wars as it was being filmed and released can you say the same???

I am not trying to defend Phantom Menace just Lucas. He makes 3 exceptional films then one flops and now Lucas is a mental case and money hungry pimp as said earlier in this thread.

Bunch of Blowhards!!!

[This message has been edited by Shatter50 (edited 10-31-2000).]

[This message has been edited by Shatter50 (edited 10-31-2000).]

[Guest Shatter50]

Well I am out for the night. Got School(Tech) in the morning but as far is this discussion goes you guys are wrong and I am right it is as simple as that.

[Chupacabra]

Boy, that's some good debating style. Night night.

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Soy super bien, soy super super bien, soy bien bien super bien bien bien super super.

[Chupacabra]

Oh, and by the way. I'm your age, Shatter. I grew up with the same action figures, Chewbacca bandoliers, and Greedo underoos you did. And you know what? Episode 1 still sucked. Live with it.

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Soy super bien, soy super super bien, soy bien bien super bien bien bien super super.

[Guest Shatter50]

As for your sports teams analogy? I love the Mets, I rooted for them in the World Series, but that doesn't mean I can't think they played like ass and blew it to the Yanks.

I guess one more

I am not saying a person can not say something sucks if it does and Pantom Menace did indeed. But to down talk and bash Lucas to no extent is a little much. People were saying they would never watch another Lucus film. That is not a true fan.As for your Mets yes they sucked bad but does that mean you will never be a Met fan again.

[Guest Shatter50]

I got back because I thought of a good exmaple for all you Lucas Bashers. Everyone here loves CM, lets say CM 2 comes out it is great, then CM 3 comes out also is great and by this time BTS is loaded and has world wide fame which is probably close to what will happen. But then CM 4 makes it to us and it totally sucks, are all of you going to do the same to the makers of CM as you all have to Lucas. Think about it

[Chupacabra]

At some point you should probably ask yourself, "Is anyone actually paying attention to me anymore?"

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Soy super bien, soy super super bien, soy bien bien super bien bien bien super super.

[PeterNZer]

I liked your story Shatter

Hey, that kinda mental space is what.. psychologists (?) call 'flow'. There's some really interesting books about it somewhere, my ex-flatmate was reading 'em.

I agree with the force stuff kinda.. I've seen some footage of pretty interesting stuff martial-arts wise as well, (like one old man holding off 10 people all pushing on him, and a big 25yr old yank unable to lift this little chinese guy off the ground.. odd )

I firmly believe annecdotes describe reality better than most other things.. and they're more fun haha.

As for Lucas, the guy is a dork haha. But the SW series is bigger than him, (he really has only actually -made- three or so films in his career eh? ****, i dunno, his record isn't that hot.

I will still enjoy the next films, just feel like the could have been more

PeterNZ

[Daveman]

At the risk of exposing myself as a total sci-fi junkie, may I recommend Daleks as armored vehicles with Cybermen infantry... mmmmmm.

Partially agree with the comments about Lucas "selling out" with Episode 1. When I watch it on tape (which admittedly hasn't been too often) I skip through much of the movie. The real "phantom menace" stuff... the intrigue on Coruscant, Senator Palpatine, etc. is interesting viewing and should have been the focus of the movie instead of podracing, Jar Jar and "yipee!". Darth Maul is pure fluff but I can't help but watch the final duel.

I do enjoy what parts I watch though, a lot like Return of the Jedi. I fast forward past much of Jabba and Endor but really enjoy the Luke-Vader-Emperor scenes.

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"Whenever a mission ends and I still have a member of the red team standing, I have to ask myself: did I do enough to ensure my own safety?" - Old Man Murray review on SWAT3

[Croda]

I can't help but chime into a debate that will soon be locked tight, and that involves some of my favorites...SW and LOTR. Let me add this to the fire.

I also grew up with Star Wars. Lived it for the early years of my life. I don't really think that the marketing blitz with Ep I was all that much different than what came with Empire and Jedi. Besides, it's a part of the industry now. Every movie that has an appeal to the younger kids will have marketing like that. SW fans greatly enjoy the novels and comics, and they are always best sellers. If it's a quality product, then I don't have a problem with it being marketed. So Marketing wasn't the problem with Ep I.

So what was? I have no idea. Bottom line: there was too much fluff. I liked the introduction on Anakin, though it certainly didn't need to be the focus. I liked the looks in "Jedi Society" - the counsel, the Master/Apprentice structure, talk of the Sith, what Jedi were actually used for - these were the things that I was hoping to see (not to mention the ass-kicking saber duel at the end). I liked Maul, and I liked the Jedi. What the movie lacked was a "tough" quality. There was too much eye-candy, and not enough drama, not enough character work, and too much reliance on goofy, Disney Channel comedy.

But Elijah, don't be fooled into thinking that LOTR will be any different from the marketing standpoint. It looks to be as big as Ep I was, and why not? They are already working on vid games, board games, card games, action figures...and all the T-shirts, lunchboxes, comics, wallpaper, Frodo-dolls, Balrog trashcans, and Gandalf-colored paint will follow. Now, while I am infinitely more excited for the pending Fellowship of the Ring film (only 14 short months away!), I am still hoping that Lucas captures the darkness in Empire for Ep II. If Ep II fails, I will have pretty much given up hope (kind of like the last couple of seasons of X-Files). Hopefully he'll take his fans' criticism to heart and write a balls-out story with no little kids slapping high-fives.

Phew, now lock away!

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"Nuts!"

[Chupacabra]

I too have no problem with merchandising. When I metioned action figures and Chewbacca bandoliers and Greedo underoos in an earlier post, I had all that stuff, and I wish I still had it. Well, maybe not the underoos.

The fact that I've lost respect for George Lucas' instincts and sensibilities as a result of the re-releases and Episode 1 has no impact at all on my love for the original films (with a caveat on Jedi). And that's pretty much that.

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Soy super bien, soy super super bien, soy bien bien super bien bien bien super super.

[Hamstersss]

When I say Tolkien and LoTR, I am not talking about the soon to be released movies, as Tolkien had no control over them and cannot be blamed if they're shash. I'm merely pointing to the fact that Tolkien put out LoTR and didn't follow it up with horse**** that ruins the series, undercuts the mythologies, effeminizes the characters and otherwise sells out.

To relate this to CM, if BTS sold the name to Galoob and Galoob produced a CM with letters from home and other crud, then we would react in the same way we reacted to Squad Leader. If, on the other hand, BTS released CM4 and it was sell out junk, then yes we would turn on BTS and curse their names. They deserve no less.

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I've got far more annoying things than that up my sleeve.

-Meeks

You must wear awfully loose shirts to fit an oompah band up your sleeve.

-Chrisl

[Croda]

I think you're comparing Apples and Oranges, Elijah. Comparing a motion picture released in the late 1990's and a set of novels released 50 years earlier is kind of a stretch when it comes to public opinion and blatant capitalism. I am every bit as fond of Tolkien as you are (well, close anyway), and I agree that had he published LOTR today, he wouldn't have done anything differently (most likely). The problem is that with the exception of Shadows of the Empire (Lucas, I realize) and perhaps this Harry Potter critter, you don't have excitement created over literature. Perhaps because the people so into acquiring the merchandised gear are too young to read the novels. If LOTR were first published today, I don't think they could create a media blitz around it if they wanted to (especially beacuse LOTR wasn't popular until years after it was published). It just doesn't work with the written word.

On a further note, comparing the creators of LOTR and SW from the aspect of caretaker of their creations is a better comparison, and perhaps the one you were trying to make. Tolkien took the utmost care to develop and mentally inhabit Middle Earth. He pined over the slightest detail, and created one of the most fantastic piece of literature the world has seen. Lucas, OTOH, created a great universe himself, and strived to ensure that it was tightly tied together and credible throughout all of the add-ons that came afterwards - vid games, novels, comics, etc - which Tolkien didn't have to deal with. My personal opionion is that he keeps too much of a hand in all these other operations, and lost sight of his original concept around 1981, when preparing for Jedi. He is involved in too many ventures to dedicate himself to being creative enough to satisfy his fans, and the results are flat scripts with the good stuff buried by mountains of fluff, and 'yippee!'. Hope that makes sense, and is along the lines of what you were getting at.

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"Nuts!"

[This message has been edited by Croda (edited 10-31-2000).]

[Guest kking199]

What would the unit cost of these be by platoon and company?!?! And what would be included as the heavy weapons, other than the semi-portable heavy blaster, like the one used to shoot at the Falcon when leaving Mos Isles (I know I butchered that name) in Episode IV, or was that Episode V when leaving Hoth..., the same?!?!

And for that matter what would a Platoon of Ewoks cost, how many per squad? They would have to be cheap. We all know how effective Ewoks are against Stormtroopers!

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Arghhh!!.... I'm Hit!!!

[Major Tom]

I am a big Star Wars fan, saw Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi when they were first released (albiet I was just a little preschooler at the time!) and I can rightfully say that I detested Star Wars Episode I. When I saw it, I had the same feelings I had when I saw Thin Red Line 'When is it going to get back to the cool shooting'. Other than the lightsaber fight at the end, I cared for absolutely nothing else.

The characters were hollow and uninteresting.

They were totally one sided and lacking of any sort of personality. I didn't care when that one Jedi died, and wouldn't have cared if Obi-wan died. Star Wars IV (the first one) was great because it spent most of the story on character development.

Lucas screwed up by trying to diversify Star Wars I too much. He tried to make it appeal to the Disney Crowd as well as the Army of Darkness Crowd. He succeeded for the first part, but lost out in his second. He knows that the feedback from fans is generally negative, and supposedly he has taken this into account for the next movie. Jar-head will be supposedly less annoying (I am actually curious at the fact that screams of racism weren't brought up, with the stupid aliens being based off of Jamaicans).

What was the point of C3P0 or R2D2?!?! It was totally unecessary to add them, and they were only included to say to hardcore Star Wars fans 'hey look! something from the good movies! so this one must be good because they are here!'

We can criticise something if it totally spits in the face of presidence. Return of the Jedi had the Ewoks, but, it made up for it through constant action, and characters you generally cared for.

Ignoring this for the sake of 'its star wars, so it gots to be good' is allowing it to slip into an abyss of crappiness. Read a Timothy Zahn (or Zhan?) book, these are probably the best renditions of post Star Wars literature ever produced, possibly even better than the original movies.

I'm a big Star Trek fan as well, and I can rightfully say that movies, I, III, V, VII, and IX were total crap.

[Croda]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Major Tom:

The characters were hollow and uninteresting.

They were totally one sided and lacking of any sort of personality. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think that may be a bit too harsh, IMHO. Underdeveloped suits me better than one sided and lacking. Attempts (albeit half-assed) were made to show the arrogance and single-mindedness of Qui-Gonn Jinn and how that would be impressed upon Obi-Wan, leading him to screw up Anakin's training. The guts were there, but without any flesh to make it look good, or stay interesting.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Lucas screwed up by trying to diversify Star Wars I too much. He tried to make it appeal to the Disney Crowd as well as the Army of Darkness Crowd. He succeeded for the first part, but lost out in his second. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Agreed.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>He knows that the feedback from fans is generally negative, and supposedly he has taken this into account for the next movie. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Parying.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> Jar-head will be supposedly less annoying ...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

He'd be less annoying six feet underground.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>What was the point of C3P0 or R2D2?!?! It was totally unecessary to add them, and they were only included to say to hardcore Star Wars fans 'hey look! something from the good movies! so this one must be good because they are here!'<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It was supposed to be a cute way to introduce the characters; to give them some history other than being purchased at the local droid store. I agree they were worthless, but it didn't bother me near as much as other aspects.

I agree with you. It's a shame, really. Too much FX, and not enough good writing. If there aren't a truckload of severed limbs in Ep II, I'm selling my toys back!

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"Nuts!"

[jshandorf]

Okay.. Just one point to make but I think it is pretty relevant.

Did ANYBODY know that Lucas only has directed Episode IV and I????

Episode V and VI were directed by other guys. Lucas still had a hand in the writing but he did not direct. I think it really shows if you ask me.

I say lets get George out of the directing chair and keep him behind the pencil err ahhh word processor. Then I think the movies will get better.

Jeff

P.S. Just looked it up... Irvin Kershner directed episode V and episode VI was directed by Richard Marquand.

In all honesty... It is one thing to dream up a universe but it is totally another to put it in front of a lens. George just can't hack it behind the camera.

[This message has been edited by jshandorf (edited 10-31-2000).]

[russellmz]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jshandorf:

Okay.. Just one point to make but I think it is pretty relevant.

Did ANYBODY know that Lucas only has directed Episode IV and I????

Episode V and VI were directed by other guys. Lucas still had a hand in the writing but he did not direct. I think it really shows if you ask me.

I say lets get George out of the directing chair and keep him behind the pencil err ahhh word processor. Then I think the movies will get better.

Jeff

P.S. Just looked it up... Irvin Kershner directed episode V and episode VI was directed by Richard Marquand.

In all honesty... It is one thing to dream up a universe but it is totally another to put it in front of a lens. George just can't hack it behind the camera.

[This message has been edited by jshandorf (edited 10-31-2000).]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

and american graffiti

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"They had their chance- they have not lead!" - GW Bush

"They had mechanical pencils- they have not...lead?" - Jon Stewart on The Daily Show