Bastables Posted August 25, 2000 Share Posted August 25, 2000 Meeks, Are you studying Sociology or Anthropology? I prefer the latter myself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark IV Posted August 25, 2000 Share Posted August 25, 2000 My handle glorifies one of the less-glorifiable Wehrmacht battle-taxis. I contributed to the march-music thread. I hang my head and wonder to which detention area I should report. My dad fought the Germans in WWII and I was a tanker in 3AD, and I hope this is taken into account at my sentencing. I have played both sides in this GAME, and continued to do so until my apprehension. I preferred Axis for a variety of non-political reasons. My dad taught me all the Ami marching songs, so I went looking for the others (sob). He told me, when I was very young, that most German soldiers were just doing their jobs, too, and were scared but competent and brave. He hated them when he was there and knew Hitler had to go, but he got over the mass-hate with time. But he didn't know s**t about programming. In my defense I can only say that the GAME would be rather one-sided if all right-thinking people chose the Allies, because, as the estimable Doctor has pointed out, the AI is so incredibly poor, and he knows WAY more about fuzzy programming than anyone at BTS. Besides, this war could break right back out any any moment, and wouldn't contributors to Certain threads with Certain handles make a convenient FIFTH COLUMN? I definitely occupy the moral low ground and I am helpless before the hull-down positions of the righteous. PS: My neighbors were in on it, too, especially the Quigsleys downstairs. We can deal if you want the goods on them. And people object to hamster threads? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calvin Posted August 25, 2000 Share Posted August 25, 2000 "Your stereotyping of people with Nazi usernames and your ardent defense of your position are for more like the conduct of those you are bashing, unlike the thoughtful and open minded responses of the people trying to tackle such a complex issue...." What's so complex about the issue of people using Nazi usernames? Ask yourself, is it good taste or not? Obviously it isn't. This thread has made for an interesting read. It reminds me of the comments at an SS historical research website. Although the site claims to be purely for historical study, you get the same kind of users and the same kind of posts. Let's see.... The US wiped out its native Americans, engaged in lynching, committed war crimes which makes us the moral equals of the Nazis.... You can't generalize about the German people/nation.... People shouldn't be so critical of others and quick to judge..... Well fellahs, the Holocaust requires judgement. It requires innate and total condemnation. All the above lukewarm arguments are fine for us armchair generals, but let's not forget a lot of young Americans died to end the terror. Let's not forget that the six million killed were not an abstraction. Let's not forget that Jochem Pieper massacred innocents on both the Western and Eastern fronts. History was once real. Once we lose sense of history as having once been reality, it becomes easy to make the above statements. There are times in life when making judgements does not make one judgemental. Obviouslyl, this is one of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chupacabra Posted August 25, 2000 Share Posted August 25, 2000 Big difference between judging Nazis and judging folks playing the German side in a computer game. Big difference. ------------------ Soy super bien, soy super super bien, soy bien bien super bien bien bien super super. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chupacabra Posted August 25, 2000 Share Posted August 25, 2000 Incidentally, check out http://www.battlefront.com/discuss/Forum1/HTML/007961.html Take a look at the final post Steve made before he locked the topic up. ------------------ Soy super bien, soy super super bien, soy bien bien super bien bien bien super super. [This message has been edited by Chupacabra (edited 08-24-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamstersss Posted August 25, 2000 Share Posted August 25, 2000 Calvin, I'm loathe to respond to your argument, primarily because you don't listen to other's arguments. Its not obvious, or there would be no debate. As to complexity, anything of such magnitude is complex. This is why it garners such diverse reactions. Your simple response, and others like it, is a knee-jerk reaction bred into you so you didn't have to waste any time thinking about it. That's fine when you're eight but when you're an adult, you have to approach complex issues with a healthy amount of respect. The demonization of the enemy has a long, long history. German barbarians, Sumerians, Hittites, Yuan, sub-Saharan Africans, Indians, Incans, Aztecs, Conquistadores, American Indians, Loyalists, Federalists, Confederates, More American Indians, Aermenians, Turks, Belgians, Imperial Germans, Imperial Japanese, Communist Russians, Nationalist Chinese, Nazi Germans, North Koreans, VC, Colombians, Iraqis... et al from the beginning of time to now. Let's remember that groups are only useful for the census, that groups are made of individuals and individuals all have positive and negative aspects. Don't give me any of this crap about issues being simple or obvious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadDog0606 Posted August 25, 2000 Share Posted August 25, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Hitler: Hi, It is me, TankDawg. Do you think that some might find this username offensive?? Well, Dr. Brian finds the user name "Peiper" offensive. Do you have a better understanding now? Jeff TankDawg (i will never use this username again)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Dude, get a clue. A name means nothing to me. It's the actions of the person that defines that person, not his/her name. You can call yourself Pol Pot as far as I care and I wont be offended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bastables Posted August 25, 2000 Share Posted August 25, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Calvin: "Your stereotyping of people with Nazi usernames and your ardent defense of your position are for more like the conduct of those you are bashing, unlike the thoughtful and open minded responses of the people trying to tackle such a complex issue...." What's so complex about the issue of people using Nazi usernames? Ask yourself, is it good taste or not? Obviously it isn't. This thread has made for an interesting read. It reminds me of the comments at an SS historical research website. Although the site claims to be purely for historical study, you get the same kind of users and the same kind of posts. Let's see.... The US wiped out its native Americans, engaged in lynching, committed war crimes which makes us the moral equals of the Nazis.... You can't generalize about the German people/nation.... People shouldn't be so critical of others and quick to judge..... Well fellahs, the Holocaust requires judgement. It requires innate and total condemnation. All the above lukewarm arguments are fine for us armchair generals, but let's not forget a lot of young Americans died to end the terror. Let's not forget that the six million killed were not an abstraction. Let's not forget that Jochem Pieper massacred innocents on both the Western and Eastern fronts. History was once real. Once we lose sense of history as having once been reality, it becomes easy to make the above statements. There are times in life when making judgements does not make one judgemental. Obviouslyl, this is one of them. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> And so does the pretty near genocide of Native Americans, aborigines and other caught on the sharp end of variants of manifest destiny. The good doctor seems to believe that the Germans had a monopoly on such behaviour. There aren’t any choirboys here, and as a former Indonesian service man I know what kind of filth infects one when I helped kill ‘primitives’ just because they did not want to join a ‘progressive’ modern Indonesian state. And I never stated or implied that just because Genocide is endemic to human history that it is any more acceptable. But neither is painting the USA as a land built on the blood of ‘half humans’ as the good guys vs. the darkness of Nazism. Nobody’s sheets are white in this, myself especially. If you want to run around condemning people on your notions of evil make sure you apply it to all candidates, not just the 'other'. Think I'll stop adding to this cesspool, I came to my fathers home land New Zealand to get away from this filth not add to it on the internet. A sincere good day to all of you. [This message has been edited by Bastables (edited 08-24-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuchulainn Posted August 25, 2000 Share Posted August 25, 2000 Time to lock this up????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TankDawg Posted August 25, 2000 Share Posted August 25, 2000 Hi, Back from dinner. Time to lock this up. I don't think either side is going to budge. It is important to once again state that neither Dr. Brian of myself said anything close to equating 'playing the Germans means you are a nazi.' Really simple. Just like the Confederate Flag, offended many and was removed from the SC State Capital, user names offend some. CM is only a game, but user names to some, have a greater meaning. That is all. Good night. ------------------ Jeff Newell TankDawg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dallas Posted August 25, 2000 Share Posted August 25, 2000 Hi all, Glad this wasnt locked up because mixed in with all the emotional fog is something valuable. I think it is a mixture of freedom of expression, thought, understanding and tolerance. My take is that anyone can use any name they like.. even the big guy 'Devil' is ok with me. I would take great pleasure in kicking their butts via pbem and would delight in taunting them with historical references to their namesake's failings. Educating without bullying or overbearing tactics. I think the fascination with SS etc. has to do simply with their 'image'. I would guess that most of those on this forum with germanic names are younger and more impressionable. While its productive for the older members to point out to them that their namesakes were not nice people, it is also important to show that we are balanced and capable of understanding them. Otherwise, human nature dictates that they will casually dismiss us as 'fuddy duddies, lamers' or whatever. Hey, if 'image' wasn't powerfully attractive to young people, the whole rock music industry would collapse. It's well documented that Hitler took advantage of this and designed insignia, uniforms, posters etc himself with a great deal of personal attention to the details. It's so powerful, it's still working now. Let's not hammer the kids for being impressionable, lets simply tell them how it really was and let them discover the truths for themselves over time. We must tell them, but with consideration and tolerance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
von Lucke Posted August 25, 2000 Share Posted August 25, 2000 *Ahem* --- Cough! Cough! IT'S ONLY A GAME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thank you for your attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KiloIndiaAlpha Posted August 25, 2000 Share Posted August 25, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Dr. Brian: Jeff, yeah. I feel the same way. That's why I can't figure out why. WE WON the freaking war. Personally, I find it deplorable when someone worships a WAR CRIMMINAL like Piper (one of my uncles was captured in December 1944, and you guessed it, he's responsible for his death). In fact, the whole German nation was geared toward racist supremecy, and those that fought for it, beleived it. They had many opportunities to speak out, but never did. It's sad. I'll take a Soviet T-34 over a MK-IV anyday. I'll take a Soviet JS over any German heavy tank. I'll take the US G.I. over any of those SS scum who pushed a policy of racial supremecy and subjegation.... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Jesus ******* christ what a simple black and white view you have. KiloIndiaAlpha BSc.(Hons) PhD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted August 25, 2000 Share Posted August 25, 2000 Whoa! Cripes, where the &$%* did this piece of crap thread come from? I haven't seen so much ill informed knee-jerking since... well the last time this topic was brought up. Bottom line is that 9 out of 10 people trying to have a debate about this issue are not schooled enough in history, ethics, law, group phsycology, etc. to have any position worth more than a pinch of salt on a raft in the middle of the ocean. Sure, everybody is entitled to their opinion, but some opinions aren't worth reading much less thinking about. And thanks to Chupacabra for linking to something so I can close up yet another debate of hard nosed ignorance... <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>OK, time to lock this one up. The great "Waffen SS deabte" ALWAYS ends in polarized, and illinformed, "debate". Most people arguing in this thread really have only a superficial understanding of one of the most complex aspects of the 20th Century (and perhaps human history in general). Even though I spent 4 years in college getting a degree that says I know more about history than others, I am no fool and understand that the 2 or 3 dozen books on the SS/Waffen SS I own (most written critically) still doesn't make me an expert. It is a MASSIVELY complicated topic that has NO EASY SOUND BITE ANSWERS. Time to lock it up...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Couldn't have said it better myself Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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