Colin Posted August 11, 2000 Share Posted August 11, 2000 In my last QB I discovered a few things. 1:You can't use AT guns if they can be seen by multiple units. They attract fire from all over the place! Every single unit will drop what they are doing to shoot at the guns. I'm not saying this is unrealistic but it's sure is damn annoying! You can't exactly put gun up on a hill (in some trees) and take out tanks from afar. They get knocked out instantly. 2: A little scenario. A 76mm AT gun with lots of AP ammo and 3 tungsten rounds is overlooking a small valley. A Panther comes wandering into LOS. Bang! The AT gun fires an AP round at the side of the Panther at a distance of 500m. It hits and is defelected off into the distance. I'm thinking 'sweet! A hit on the first try! Your gun is already positioned now just load a tungsten round and knock out this beast. The Panther pauses. The 76mm AT gun reloads and fires again. It's another AP round which bounces off just as the first one did!!! The Panther has spotted my gun! I watch the turret swing around and fire at my gun. Ouch! I lose a crewman! The gun is still reloading. The Panther fires again and misses completly. The gun fires another AP round and misses!! A MkIV comes wandering onto the scene and also starts firing at my gun at a range of about 950m.The MkIV fires and hits the gun knocking it out. Now why didn't the gun use tungsten???!?!?!?! Why did it miss a target it had already hit twice?! The Panther had not moved at all and hadn't even had time to move it's frontal armor toward me. I can sorta understand it missing (**** Happens®) but it shouldn't have had to take that shot in the first place!! I think tungsten should be used when it can be!! And another small question: Has anyone seen a German tank using tungsten (PzGrn 40) rounds? ------------------ And if we abandon any platform, I can assure you it will not be the Macintosh. -Steve My website! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bil Hardenberger Posted August 11, 2000 Share Posted August 11, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>1:You can't use AT guns if they can be seen by multiple units. They attract fire from all over the place! Every single unit will drop what they are doing to shoot at the guns. I'm not saying this is unrealistic but it's sure is damn annoying! You can't exactly put gun up on a hill (in some trees) and take out tanks from afar. They get knocked out instantly.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Oh? I would like you to try a little scenario I designed (on the CD - play as the Germans) called Fire & Maneuver, you will see how good AT guns can be. Bil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted August 11, 2000 Author Share Posted August 11, 2000 Eventually. I don't like playing large scenarios as my computer really can't handle much. However if you would like to donate a ATi Rage 128 Orion card for Mac I'd appreciate it. ------------------ And if we abandon any platform, I can assure you it will not be the Macintosh. -Steve My website! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PzKpfw 1 Posted August 11, 2000 Share Posted August 11, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Colin: And another small question: Has anyone seen a German tank using tungsten (PzGrn 40) rounds? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> You won't see a German tank fireing Pzgr.40 it wasn't modeled, they get Pzgr.39 & SprGr.40 thats it . I have been wondering where the HlGr.39 is for the Tiger1 & II as it was carried, with & or used to replace SprGr.40. Regards, John Waters -------- "Go for the eyes Boo, go for the eyes!!". [This message has been edited by PzKpfw 1 (edited 08-12-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PzKpfw 1 Posted August 11, 2000 Share Posted August 11, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bil Hardenberger: Oh? I would like you to try a little scenario I designed (on the CD - play as the Germans) called Fire & Maneuver, you will see how good AT guns can be. Bil<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Heh Bill you'd never believe how I beat your scenerio . Wont say anymore as it would spoil it, lets just say I did something that the AI never expected , and it worked.. Regards, John Waters ------------------ People who can smile when things go wrong have found someone else to blame. [This message has been edited by PzKpfw 1 (edited 08-11-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximus Posted August 11, 2000 Share Posted August 11, 2000 What's a Mac, again? I had a Big Mac for lunch, never heard of an Apple Mac. ------------------ Be sure and check out my texture mods on CMHQ. Dave "Ol' Blood & Maximus Butticus" Molinarolo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bil Hardenberger Posted August 11, 2000 Share Posted August 11, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Heh Bill you'd bever believe how I beat your scenerio . Wont say anymore as it would spoil it, lets just say I did something that the AI never expected<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Can you e-mail me an AAR John? I would appreciate it. Bil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalem Posted August 11, 2000 Share Posted August 11, 2000 SPOILERS: - - - - - - - Bill, I will just say that, after all the warnings and cautions about that particular scenario, last night I puffed up my ego and swaggered onto the field thinking 'surely I can be wily enough to achieve X, Y, and Z.' Well, you know the rest of the story. "Kronk! Kronk! Kronk-Kronk!" "Huh? Okay, I just need to do a little-- "Whooooooosh--" "Uh oh." "Wham! Wham! BAM! BAM! KRONK!" "Oh, well then I'll just fiddle with these--" "KRONK! kronk-kronk-kronk!" "O my." Thanks for a hot ride! -dale Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Michael emrys Posted August 12, 2000 Share Posted August 12, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Maximus: What's a Mac, again? I had a Big Mac for lunch, never heard of an Apple Mac. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> They're great with a little cinnamon and sugar. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Formerly Babra Posted August 12, 2000 Share Posted August 12, 2000 I won't address the tungsten issue, but an AT gun (especially a 76mm) has a fair bit of kick when it fires. If it's not relaid correctly, the second shot could miss where the first one hit. Nothing so odd about that. But I hear what you're sayin'... ------------------ It's a mother-beautiful bridge and it's gonna be THERE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pillar Posted August 12, 2000 Share Posted August 12, 2000 That and just being nearly killed (or killed in the case of the one guy) by a Panther HE shell, I think it missing a bit is in order Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pathfinder Posted August 12, 2000 Share Posted August 12, 2000 yeah, Pillar is right. I personally have experienced a few short arty rounds, not too dissimilar from a missed tank He round, and uhm.....it took a while to clean mah drawers....much less to continue mah FO work... ------------------ unca pathy will show ya the path, if only he could find it himself! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RudeLover Posted August 12, 2000 Share Posted August 12, 2000 Somewhere in the manual it sez that tungsten rounds won't be fired until a target is acquired. First and second shots often being inaccurate, the gunners don't want to waste their special ammo on a target they aren't likely to hit. That said, based on your report I would have been tempted to load the T for that second shot. I've watched a 57mm atg bounce multiple rounds off a Panther while carefully hoarding their tungsten rounds. Evidently they can be traded for a couple packs of smokes and a bottle of Cognac . . . BTW, the Fire & Manuever scenario was, well, humbling...I knew I sucked, but I didn't know I sucked that bad! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barb Posted August 12, 2000 Share Posted August 12, 2000 "In my last QB I discovered a few things. 1:You can't use AT guns if they can be seen by multiple units. They attract fire from all over the place! Every single unit will drop what they are doing to shoot at the guns." Just played QB against the AI. I was germans with infantry, AI americans with lots of tanks. I put my 75mm PaK 40 in a good position where it could see the hill AI had it tanks. Also got a veteran sniper in the highest position of the map. The sniper buttoned the enemy tanks, and after that it was easy for the PaK to destroy all of the blind tanks (AI wasnt intelligent enough to have any infantry to support the tanks...) When the battle ended, my PaK had destroyed 6 enemy tanks, and it was in perfect condition (I think it was after the 3rd tank its position got known to enemy, and even after that it couldnt be fired but with only one thank at a time) So I think the gun did its work... Just have to position it correctly, it cant be used like a King Tiger... "You can't exactly put gun up on a hill (in some trees) and take out tanks from afar. They get knocked out instantly." Damn right about that BTW it hurts to read my own english, because even I can see it sucks... And I HATE it when i do those stypid dots after every sentance i wrote... you know what I mean... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpinard Posted August 12, 2000 Share Posted August 12, 2000 Here's the deal (not looking at the tungsten rounds). If you had tanks shooting at you, you're aim would probably become less accurate, as ypu'd be scared for your life. -Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Posted August 12, 2000 Share Posted August 12, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bil Hardenberger: Oh? I would like you to try a little scenario I designed (on the CD - play as the Germans) called Fire & Maneuver, you will see how good AT guns can be. Bil<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Played it and became totally frustrated at having my panzers cooked off. It was a humbling experience. Good demonstration of what a well planned AT defence can do. ------------------ Blessed be the Lord my strength who teaches my hands to war and my fingers to fight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilhammer Posted August 12, 2000 Share Posted August 12, 2000 I was playing a D'led Scenario and a lowly 75 pack gun "killed" two Tiger 1s frontally while suffering half a crew loss. Kill one was a blast from HE that immobilized with a track hit at a range of around 200 metres. A nearby zook team kept it worried while the li'l 75 kept hitting it with HE, about 4 times. Next turn, the Tiger was abandoned when some infantry started grenading it. The crew bailed and was executed. It killed 3 crewmen of the gun. Tiger 2 died from a very lucky gun hit at about 150 metres. It was then immobilized and hit 2 more times with HE. Another squad approached it and killed it with a grenade-abandon-execute routine. In the same battle, another Tiger died from a barrage of rifle grenades. One eventually got a weak spot armor kill. Several squads participated in that kill. The mistake was the AI pushed the Tanks individually and got too close to hiding places that allowed infantry to frighten the AFvs. I feel this team approach allowed the li'l 75 a bit of immunity, but the AI commiting piece meal was the fatal flaw. The li'l 75 never fired a round of HEAT. BTW, I kept an excellent leader next to the gun, which greatly aided in accuracy and morale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OsinO Posted August 12, 2000 Share Posted August 12, 2000 Another thing I just discovered (im not sure if it ever said anything about this in the manual) is that if you select a unit and press N you can cycle through all of the targets that are in its view and it can attack. I read the whole manual and talked on this board and never knew about it until i pressed it by accident. Did anyone else know about this? I was thinking about makinga topic bout it to let ppl know, but I thought everyone might already know... ------------------ ¤§ïѤ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grognerd_Fogman Posted August 12, 2000 Share Posted August 12, 2000 Yup, if ya look closely at the unit command menu, all of the commands have a letter associated with it. Now get back to kill'n boy! ------------------ Thanks for Athskin! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goofy Posted August 12, 2000 Share Posted August 12, 2000 One thing I've noticed and always wondered about are the pictures you see of ATG's IN ACTION sitting in a road engaging targets! I've seen enough to know these aren't "Staged" shots, I've seen sequence shots and see a knocked out tank beyond them. What kind of bravery (or foolishness?) would it take to sit IN the open and wait on a target? I've seen these pictures and wondered how they could get the photographer to stay there and take the pictures? I wouldn't want to be anywhere around! So....is the ATG just that hard to spot? I've seen pictures like this where the gun has kill rings on the barrel so these weren't green troops who didn't know any better!Comments?.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted August 12, 2000 Share Posted August 12, 2000 Against buttoned Soviet tanks I'd say that was entirely viable. Hell Soviet tanks had a reputation for comign along in ones and twos once their initial breakthrough was made. In ones and twos you can simply pick them off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pathfinder Posted August 12, 2000 Share Posted August 12, 2000 Fionn is correct except I would venture to say any buttoned tank try it sometime, ya can't see nuttin' buttoned up ------------------ unca pathy will show ya the path, if only he could find it himself! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insu Posted August 12, 2000 Share Posted August 12, 2000 Quote: ____________________________________________ You can't use AT guns if they can be seen by multiple units. They attract fire from all over the place! Every single unit will drop what they are doing to shoot at the guns. I'm not saying this is unrealistic but it's sure is damn annoying! _____________________________________________ Since the guns are vulnerable don´t put them in a spot were they can shoot on everything on the map because all those targets will shoot back at the gun and it will probably render it out of action quickly. Put the guns in a protected position with a limited field of fire. The difficult thing is to find such a spot cause you want to see some results from that gun. If you put the gun in a place where your opponent doesn´t show, just calm down and remember: 1. You don´t have to worry about that sector as much 2. The gun is still on the map and thereby a threat, should the enemy change his tactics. 3. You could always try to lure your enemy into the guns field of fire. If you do insist of placing your guns with wide fields of fire - don´t open fire too early! Hope none of my PBEM´s are reading this... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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