KingOPork Posted June 20, 2000 Share Posted June 20, 2000 Ok i was playing mission X,(don't want spoiler flames) and i came across a panther (methinks.) Now i shoot it with my sherman, 2 rounds bounce off it's upper hull and then it kills me. Now i go through 3 more tanks, coming from different angles, that just ricochet. I think i had about 10 ricochets off the upper hull be4 i finally hit the track. Ok now it can't move. Now it takes out my 4th tank. =\ My 5th tank comes into range, 2 ricochet, then the final one hits the gun. Does this happen often? I mean it was totally insane how a normal panther could take out about 5 of my veteran tanks. You'd think the ricochet would do a lil more damage. Oh well, it ruined my day. -KOP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikester Posted June 20, 2000 Share Posted June 20, 2000 Amazing how tough that German armor is when the armor of the various tanks, guns, and ballistics are all modeled correctly. Now you will feel the fear that allied tankers and grunts felt when those Panthers and Tigers showed up. Mikester out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Shaw Posted June 20, 2000 Share Posted June 20, 2000 The real Grogs will be able to answer this more accurately, but IIRC the numbers you quote actually sound about right. I think the US Army determined that it takes about 5 or 6 Shermans to take out one Panther. I'll let the real experts give you chapter and verse. Joe ------------------ Compliments appreciated, Questions answered, Death Threats reciprocated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingfish Posted June 20, 2000 Share Posted June 20, 2000 KoP, I don't understand. You have the game in your HD, you have 50 ready made scenarios to chose from, dozens more from other sources, the option to create thousands more with the DYO generator, and your day is ruined because a Panther pops 4 Shermans? ------------------ The dead know only one thing - it is better to be alive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowWraith Posted June 20, 2000 Share Posted June 20, 2000 Panthers are tough SOB's you got lucky in hitting the gun, i have seen one panther nuke 7 shermans without breaking a sweat. ------------------ ShadowWraith "There is nothing to Fear but Fear itself" "Limits were made to be Broken" "Face your Fears, Live your Dreams" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted June 20, 2000 Share Posted June 20, 2000 KingOPork, Read some more battle accounts . |The US Army figured it needed to put 5 Shermans on the battlefield to take out a single Panther so what you've described is pretty much on the money. Panthers are tough beasts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aka_tom_w Posted June 20, 2000 Share Posted June 20, 2000 I think we all played Shermans against that Panther in VoT and if you did not learn to manouver your Shermans to do what ever you can to get a flank or rear shot on that Panther then SHAME on you. The Panther has VERY heavy armour head-on and you should expect richottes. Just do the math for your self. Click (select) the Panther and hit return (or enter?) then look at the slope on mm thickness of the armour on its frontal aspects. Now click (select) your sherms and find out how far from the target they are, WHat is their range? now look at the penetration ability of their main gun at that range. It will give a value in mm say 98? SIMPLE math if the mm of thickness of their main gun pentration is less than (given sloped armour effects) of the mm of thickness of armour on the front of the Panther then those Sherm rounds will bounce of that Panther all day long or until you get the Magical 1% critical hit which models an armour weaknes on 1% of the hits in a given aspect of the tank (1 in 100) and 30% 50% armour less than the rest of the regular surounding (normal) armour. (mostly this is intended to accurately model weak armour area's like the co-axial machine gun mount or the driver's vision slit, this little tid bit was reported by Charles in an old tank gunnery thread, if you are interested search for "1% critical hit") So simply do the MATH.... Look at the mm of armour thickness on the sides and rear and see if you can penetrate that. And at what range, and plan your tactics accordingly. If you sent 6 sherms head on into a Panther you deserved to get 5-6 of them ko'd Panthers are very unlikly to ko'd from the front by a Sherm other comments ?.. -tom w ------------------ <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> "Have you thanked BTS by buying your SECOND copy of CM yet?" <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> [This message has been edited by aka_tom_w (edited 06-20-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aikidorat Posted June 20, 2000 Share Posted June 20, 2000 I noticed in VoT that the Panther has a shot trap (ie, no chin extension on the front mantle), so theoretically there's a chance a shot could richochet off the turret and penetrate the top armor. After bouncing numerous shots off it myself, all I've been able to do is damage the machine guns. Anyone have this happen? I figure it has to happen sooner or later dave ------------------ The only reason for time is so everything doesn't happen at once Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aikidorat Posted June 20, 2000 Share Posted June 20, 2000 I noticed in VoT that the Panther has a shot trap (ie, no chin extension on the front mantle), so theoretically there's a chance a shot could richochet off the turret and penetrate the top armor. After bouncing numerous shots off it myself, all I've been able to do is damage the machine guns. Anyone have this happen? I figure it has to happen sooner or later dave ------------------ The only reason for time is so everything doesn't happen at once Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aikidorat Posted June 20, 2000 Share Posted June 20, 2000 I noticed in VoT that the Panther has a shot trap (ie, no chin extension on the front mantle), so theoretically there's a chance a shot could richochet off the turret and penetrate the top armor. After bouncing numerous shots off it myself, all I've been able to do is damage the machine guns. Anyone have this happen? I figure it has to happen sooner or later dave ------------------ The only reason for time is so everything doesn't happen at once Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killmore Posted June 20, 2000 Share Posted June 20, 2000 I would like to thank BTS for making a game where German tanks are as powerfull as they should be. THANK YOU. KEEP IT UP with CM2-Eastfront. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kraut Posted June 20, 2000 Share Posted June 20, 2000 Something from the other side of the fence ... Had a vet SS panther. AI had a vet 76mm gun. Panther dead on first shot, front hull penetration. O vell, wie schall return, wid more panzers! MK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingOPork Posted June 20, 2000 Author Share Posted June 20, 2000 Doh, uhhh, good job BTS! =P -KOP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kump Posted June 20, 2000 Share Posted June 20, 2000 YES!!!! My panther appeared hull down and a Sherman fired on my front armor and WAM, the shot trap occurred and my Panther was OUT!!! Imagine how I felt! It was my first experience with the Panther in CM and it was taken out with one Sherman round! I wanted to scream foul and say the Panther was not tough enough in CM! So there you go. Those are the breaks of war, luck can rule the day. The panther should be tough to the front. Get to the sides and rear. You got the numbers. Have artillery drop smoke when you find a panther at range. Don't slug it out frontally at range. Smoke and get out of the way. Manuever to flanks. Rush it and show that numbers count. That Panther turret is really slow. Come at it from multiple sides at the same time. You will be eating Kitty in no time. PS: Don't you think "Bug" in the title is a little over board for such an issue? Regardless how the gun calculations are programmed, its working as intended. You may wish to debate the merits and details, but calling something a bug because your tanks experienced an all too often occurance in WWII is a little out there. Okay, you were just trying to get attention and I'm frustrated because no CM yet, but hey, at least you now know not to go straight at the Panther, learned some respect, and next time will apply lessons learned. ------------------ Garry Kump Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dar Posted June 20, 2000 Share Posted June 20, 2000 There you go, King! Now you know how Tigers and Panthers got their reputations! Try circling those Shermans around the Panther and ganging up on it. Frontal attacks with anything less than a 76mm are suicidal. Dar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARCHANGEL Posted June 20, 2000 Share Posted June 20, 2000 KOP, Going back to VOT, which I assume most of us have tried by now, you learn to attack a Panther from the side or rear, as previously stated. I even had a bazooka take the Panther out in two games, employing flank or rear shots... it was a thing of beauty to behold that lone 'zook jock, sitting in the woods on the hill when the Panther showed up and began to move for kills on Shermas that were on his flank...The Panther got one Sherman and damaged the other as the 'zook man slowly and methodically lined up a perfect shot at the Panthers side and blew him up!!! (Frankly, I was a bit stunned, but so happy I was ready to send the gunner home on a War Bond tour with a Silver Star or DSC and Betty Grable to keep him company.) Anyway...NEVER fight face to face when you can fight on an enemy's flank...from fire teams to Field Army's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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