Andre76 Posted August 16, 2000 Share Posted August 16, 2000 As I've understood it, the Nashorn used to kill the allied tanks from long range to use it superior '88 and optics to good effect. But in CM the distances are short and anyone who have used a open topped, thin skinned vehicle know how vunerable it is once it's get spotted. SO, this leaves these sort of vehicles to be used in ambush only, with flanking/rear shots. Well, my question then is: Why buy the Nashorn? Since you'll be using it for ambushes after all, you can go a long way with the Marder. You'll most likely get penetration (flanking/rear)and it costs less than the Nashorn. Anyone had any great success with the Nashorn (that couldn't had been done with the Marder)? ------------------ André Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pillar Posted August 16, 2000 Share Posted August 16, 2000 I just lost a Sherman to one in a pbem game, that 88 is deadly. It's a garuanteed kill pretty much, so long as it hits. The Marder you can survive.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andre76 Posted August 16, 2000 Author Share Posted August 16, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Pillar: It's a garuanteed kill pretty much, so long as it hits. The Marder you can survive..<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> What I mean is that you can use it in two different ways: 1. As a tank. You can go head to head with other tanks, AC's, but then you'll be killed in no time. (due to all sort of nasty things, arty, AC, Tanks,.50 cal...) 2. In ambush.-> flank/rear shots. And The Marder is capable to destroy all allied tanks with a flank shot (with the exception of the 'Jumbo' where you have to hit lower hull), so why use the Nashorn? That's my point. Also: The Nashorn was not intended for this role, oder? ------------------ André Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Aitken Posted August 16, 2000 Share Posted August 16, 2000 Andre76 wrote: > Why buy the Nashorn? To blow stuff up mate. (This is a carefully reasoned and historically accurate technical answer.) ------------------ There's a splinter in your eye, and it reads REACT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Aitken Posted August 16, 2000 Share Posted August 16, 2000 Seriously though, it's probably in because it was common during the war. Use it on the bigger maps. David ------------------ There's a splinter in your eye, and it reads REACT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanir Posted August 16, 2000 Share Posted August 16, 2000 The Nashhorn was designed to pick off thick skinned Russian tanks at a distance on the open Russian steppes. In CM, where engagement ranges average around 300-400 meters it seems, the long range hitting power of its gun is largely wasted. At these ranges the 75L48 gun on the StuG IIIG is about as effective against most allied armor, is more survivable with much better armor and is a little cheaper to boot. Unless you are playing on a big, flat map the Nashhorn is out of its element in CM. That may change in CM2... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holdit Posted August 16, 2000 Share Posted August 16, 2000 I'm guessing here, because I've never used the Nashorn, but perhaps a useful approach would be to treat it like an extremely mobile 88 that has a bit of armour protection against small arms, rather than as a tank or assault gun? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuka Posted August 16, 2000 Share Posted August 16, 2000 Agreed, just because its available you don't have to use it.. In CM2 it will have its day on the open steppes but in terms of bang for your buck, in CM1, your money is better spent elsewhere.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuka Posted August 16, 2000 Share Posted August 16, 2000 . [This message has been edited by Stuka (edited 08-16-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuka Posted August 16, 2000 Share Posted August 16, 2000 Woops, please excuse the double post guys, I got a bit carried away Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andre76 Posted August 16, 2000 Author Share Posted August 16, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Stuka: Agreed, just because its available you don't have to use it.. In CM2 it will have its day on the open steppes but in terms of bang for your buck, in CM1, your money is better spent elsewhere..<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> That was my point, there is little use for the Nashorn in CM and should be avoided to spend your point better elsewhere. I just wondered if I could be wrong (yes, it HAS happened before!! ) and someone had a good argument for buying the damn thing (besides the cool name that is ) ------------------ André Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarmo Posted August 16, 2000 Share Posted August 16, 2000 I don't use Nashorn all that much, 'cause I hate light armor always getting killed by the AT-mortars. But it would be a good thing to have around in PBEM's, as you run into Churchills, Jumbos and Pershings all the time. ------------------ Now, would this brilliant plan involve us climbing out of our trenches and walking slowly towards the enemy sir? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuka Posted August 16, 2000 Share Posted August 16, 2000 I have a leaning towards the panther, it seems a good all round battle tank, good armour ,firepower, maneuverability and doesn't seem to get bogged too often. I have'nt much experience with the allied tanks, all my Pbem opponents seem to want to be the allied forces so I get to lose more often but at least I look cool in my black panzer uniform when I'm dead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andre76 Posted August 16, 2000 Author Share Posted August 16, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jarmo: I don't use Nashorn all that much, 'cause I hate light armor always getting killed by the AT-mortars. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Amen brother! ------------------ André Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howardb Posted August 16, 2000 Share Posted August 16, 2000 I would guess most of the maps doesn't suit the Nashorn so it's a gamble. If you already know that a map has a few excellent spots (1500-2000m) it could possibly do some damage but then again I don't find any afv's in CM effective at longer ranges (something that bothers me). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andre76 Posted August 16, 2000 Author Share Posted August 16, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Stuka: I have a leaning towards the panther, it seems a good all round battle tank, good armour ,firepower, maneuverability and doesn't seem to get bogged too often. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I have always liked the Jagdpanther. Deadly and it looks fearsome! No traverse but good sloped armour with the 88 L/71, damn it looks good! ------------------ André Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andre76 Posted August 16, 2000 Author Share Posted August 16, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by howardb: damage but then again I don't find any afv's in CM effective at longer ranges (something that bothers me).<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> We'll see how BTS handles the easteren front. If the germans aren't allowed to pick the T-34 off from a distance the german player will get swamped fairly quickly! ------------------ André Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarmo Posted August 16, 2000 Share Posted August 16, 2000 Long-range accuracy improves after a few shots, I have made a scenario where AT pillboxes keep killing allied tanks from 1500 meters. ------------------ Now, would this brilliant plan involve us climbing out of our trenches and walking slowly towards the enemy sir? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mace Posted August 16, 2000 Share Posted August 16, 2000 Yep, I'd agree that it's a bit of a waste on the Western Front with small engagement ranges and restrictive terrain, but get this baby on the Russian Steppes where it can shoot at very long range, and I think it'll fill a very nice niche! Mace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M Hofbauer Posted August 16, 2000 Share Posted August 16, 2000 "I have'nt much experience with the allied tanks, all my Pbem opponents seem to want to be the allied forces so I get to lose more often but at least I look cool in my black panzer uniform when I'm dead" LOL... amen, amen to that...yes, same here, and it's all BTS'S fault :-p because they generously equipped all the 76 tanks with plentiful tungsten rounds, so there's no point about any frontal armor for german tanks. OTOH, the allied tank hunters seem to have just a little bit too little tungsten rounds when compared to the tanks, after all it was the tank hunters who were exclusively supplied with tungsten rounds, and the tanker crews would only obtain some from their TD brothers by making them drunk wiith cheap whiskey and steal some, or win some in a game of Poker, or trade some for the crate of french Bordeaux they captured... Andre76, you're pretty right IMO in your observation that the Nashorn is just an overkill Marder. So you might as well buy that damn Marder. Not that it will help a lot sincerely, M.Hofbauer (who also looks cool in his black uniform when running away from his knocked out tanks) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PzKpfw 1 Posted August 16, 2000 Share Posted August 16, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Andre76: We'll see how BTS handles the easteren front. If the germans aren't allowed to pick the T-34 off from a distance the german player will get swamped fairly quickly! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Heh, that happens already in CM, I get overrun by Allied armor on a regular basis, especialy after my PAK get hit, & my few Stug's & Marders get taken out . 1 of my Marders killed 4 Shermans in 4 shots yesterday, at 500 - 700ms, it wouldve had 5 but it missed the next Sherman on the 1st shot & was destroyred by an US AT-mortar with 4 straight top hits from over 800ms before it could reload 8(. But I am kinda partial to Stugs and Marders, as it makes for some very interesting games . Regards, John Waters ------------- "Go for the eyes Boo, go for the eyes!!". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SF Posted August 16, 2000 Share Posted August 16, 2000 Ahh.......let us not forget the value of being able to change the property values in the local real estate markets with that mobile 88. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter S Posted August 16, 2000 Share Posted August 16, 2000 Why buy Nashorns? Because YOU CAN! Seriously though, Marders may be more cost effective (almost two can be had for the price of one Nashorn) but the Nashorn's 88L71 cannon is guaranteed to punch through virtually all Allied armor at all ranges. The Marder's 75L48 cannon is good, but not THAT good. On the other hand, if you're going to use 'shoot and scoot' tactics at very close ranges then the Marder is ideal, it's a cheap tank for taking cheap shots. Personally, if I'm going to spend upwards of 90 points for a TD then I'd go for the Stug IIIG; it's got a low profile, it's not an open topped vehicle, it's hide is much thicker than the Marder's and Nashorn's (therefore allowing for the chance of a glancing blow or non-penetrative hit), and unlike the Marder and Nashorn the Stug has a MG (two MGs on the Late model) for pasting soft skinned targets. The Marder and Nashorn having nothing to offer beyond their main gun and can barely withstand a dose of small arms fire and harsh language, let alone a 50mm-75mm AP or HE round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paullus Posted August 16, 2000 Share Posted August 16, 2000 I find the Hetzer to be a much better buy than even a Stug-III. I've had a dozen or more 75mm shots bounce off its sloped armor before finally taking a critical or debilitating hit (more than enough time to inflict substantial losses on advancing armor). Worth at least twice its weight in points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter S Posted August 16, 2000 Share Posted August 16, 2000 Ahh yes, the Hetzer, I forgot about that one. Good call. Its sloped armor really does the trick, whereas the StugIIIG's armor is about as vertical as the Tiger's. And best of all it's a steal at 75 points. Haven't seen or played with the Hetzer too much though. I just got CM and have been playing mostly Quick Battles in Summer 44. I think the Hetzer is available by Fall 44, correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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