Little Gems of ideas for CM2 thread

[Hans]

A FO if radio equipped or "wired in" by land line could shoot from a vehicle, especially in a prepared defense. However an FO in a moving vehicle on the attack or roving defense has a problem in the magnetic interference of the vehicle distorting the azimuth he takes to the target. FO were famous for jumping out of vehicles, dropping weapon, web gear and helmet, proceeding a few meters to take an uninfluenced compass read.

[Gremlin]

The ability to manually target all independently mounted AFV guns against different targets during a turn. I.e., the machine gun (guns, depending on the source) and twin flamethrowers on the German Sd Kfz 251/16 halftrack; the main gun, bow MG, and cupola MG on tanks that have them, etc.

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War is cruel and you cannot refine it. --Sherman

[Uedel]

i like to see,

a) Ammo-Dumps allows infantry to re-arm and grab ammo

scout units with a + for hide and spoting

c) better Dynamical not-straight Frontlines in Campaigns

d) Objekt-linked events like Reinforcment if Victory Flak x is taken

e) Units that grab inf-Weapons from dead soldiers if ammo is exhaustet

f) More and greater Variety of Buildings

Greets

Uedel

[Gryphon]

- Large campaigns

- Kursk, Stalingrad etc.

- More buildings

- More tilesets

- Smoother tilesets

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[CMplayer]

I love this game. It is excellent, and I

keep discovering new finesses in it

almost every day or two. I hope that

some of these suggestions are useful

for the next version:

Taking prisoners early on in the game and

getting them to a company or higher HQ

could be able to yield intelligence about

enemy gun positions, etc. One could

possibly even have special interrogation

officer units.

As it is now I can't set up mines in

an open ground tile between a blockhouse

and and pavement tile. The AI has no problem

setting up there, though. It seems that

the exact spot to 'point at' is so tiny

as to be impossible to hit for a human.

Vehicles could be exempted from order delay

on movement orders on _first turn_ so that

they can start out already moving at

full speed (in case you inadvertently

start out in LOS of threats)

Ability to set up shellholes in map design.

I realize this is probably hard to program

since the shellholes aren't a feature

of a tile, but an alteration of the map

datastructure, but it would add a lot

to scenario design.

Lots more focus on the urban-fighting

side of the game, both in terms of

terrain and buildings, and the tacAI.

In particular, buildings taken in a

campaign should be held onto and not

erased by the straightening of the

deployment lines. This makes night

infiltration in an urban campaign a

real possibility. Even taking one

single building at night could be

a significant gain for the next days

fighting.

In Berlin the standard apartment buildings

consisted of four buildings surrounding

a courtyard. The 'blockhouse' doesn't

model this accurately enough. I don't

know about Russian city design but I'd

wager it's similar. Lots of LOS issues

could come up if, for instance, some

but not all of the buildings surrounding

a couryard were reduced to rubble.

More dynamic rubble. Rubble could be

similar to shellholes, rather than

just an own tile. That way it could

fall part way, or all the way across

a street, depending on the way a building

collapses, making the LOS and cover

situation in urban fighting more intricate.

Concrete and stone buildings can burn to

a shell, and be both rubble, and block

LOS at the same time. New graphics for

these gutted hulks.

Building tiles similar to the blockhouse

tiles, but which, when placed adjacent

to each other, are considered to be part

of the same building, i.e. permeable for

movement inside. (both low and high).

Partial collapse for such large buildings.

Movement from the upper level of a building

to the upper level of an adjacent building.

(under the right circumstances) Top-down

building clearing.

Addition of SOP options for units, or more

detailed ordergiving, along the lines

that many people have already described.

In particular the ability to designate

high urgency targets (such as when you

need to coordinate suppressive fire with

assault movement) and the ability to

give orders like 'fire to button' so that

the MG knows why, and how long, to fire

at a tank.

A 'unit editor' making it possible to

custom design units, weapons, vehicles

and maybe even entire nationalities.

The tacAI could be a little smarter about

not plotting a course through bocage/barbed

wire when it is right at the edge of the

obstacle anyway. Especially in fast-move

mode.

Ice movement shouldn't be penalized for

speed if there is snow. The snow makes

the ice not so slippery, and it's

basically like walking on snowy ground.

Differing strengths of ice. Vehicles can

move on thick ice. On thinner ice the

men could have to move slowly, despite

snow, because the ice is making scary

cracking noises.

Artillery should be able to pound a hole

in ice, making it water, and dumping the

unlucky guys into the lake/sea. Again,

different strengths of ice is a good

idea here.

There should even be able to be snowy

weather with non-ice water, the sea for

instance.

Civilians, at least as an option. Both

hiding in cellars or refugee columns

on roads etc. This would do a lot for

realism.

Medics and medevac issues, at least as

an option.

Background a factor in spotting, as

in skylining vs having forest behind

you when you expose your turret, for

example.

A more clear distinction between area

fire and opportunity fire. For example

a marker, like an ambush marker, but

which means shoot at all infantry targets

which present themselves in this area,

with preference to moving and

exposed targets. As it is now, the area

fire command seems useless for sharpshooters,

but an opportunity fire marker would be

very useful for them. This would be a

very realistic addition IMO.

Correct location of the sun/moon based

on exact date, time and latitude info.

This could affect spotting.

Dynamic weather, such as scattered showers,

making possible weather change during

a longer scenario.

Long scenarios going from night to dawn,

dawn to day, day to dusk, dusk to night.

The dawn/dusk looks beautiful, but the

rosy fingertips of dawn shouldn't be

in a 360 degree spread.

Artillery taking out fortifications like

barbed wire/mines.

The Finns and their skis.

Partisans.

At the end you are given information

casualties/KIA. Shouldn't casualties

be divided up according to those that

are 'out of the war' and those that

will be back soon?

The possiblity to recover mortar ammo

from a knocked out mortar and take it

to another functioning barrel. Same

for MG's.

Also, if you have two otherwise identical

AT guns, set up to cover two streets, and

one sees action while the other doesn't

fire a shot, the crew could run some ammo

over to the other gun, if they were close

enough. Tricky to program but it could make

the game a lot more intense. This is just

the sort of thing that makes a difference

if you are fighting a dynamic defence

against a superior force, and we want

that kind of excitement in CM don't we?

regards,

--Rett

[wie201]

Some type of smoother drop off than the current 90 degree end of map. Ideally, a large drop off (not 90 degrees) would be great (clearly indicating the limits of your current operational area), with some much smaller and less detail graphics to the left and right of the map indicating that some sort of other fighting is going on (small figures of men and vehicles), complete with explosions and smoke during movie playbacks.

Tracks for vehicles in snow, especially light snow, where the vehicle could churn up the snow exposing the ground underneath, assiting with detetion that at least something was there, and where it was going (or coming from)

[Jasper]

Boy am *I* off the beaten track. This is what I was/am expecting from CM2.

(1) That CM2 would span the years from ~1941 - ~1945.

As such there would need to be a calendar to determine things like equipment availability (and cost). A new piece of equipment - like a Panther tank would be very expensive, but the cost would fall after it's been around awhile.

There would need to be a changing morale scheme for both sides.

Example: 1941 - German High - Russian Low (surrender easy)

1942 - German High - Russian Low but they stopped surrendering as a rule.

1943 - German Moderate - Russian Moderate

1944 - German mid moderate - Russian High

etc etc

The Germans would probably always have the 'no surrender' option in place.

The German players will probably whine about the Russians not surrendering, but maybe had the Germans taken more *live* prisoners in 1941 then it may have been avoided. As having angry customers is not what anyone wants - then there may be an option to turn off the 'East Front' morale and replace it with a 'West Front' morale scheme. Bogus? Sure, it's only a game.

It'll be interesting to see if the use of captured equipment is implemented. Currently the scheme is to not allow the same equipment on both sides.

Since the makeup and quality of infantry changed over time then there'll need to be something like 'Infantry 1941' and 'Infantry 1942' - perhaps some type of dynamic infantry model so that the values of infantry units will depend on what date it is.

[CMplayer]

One more thing: Heavy weapons can

be KO'd or abandoned. It would be

really cool if troops in certain

situations could re-man an abandoned

weapon.

Just because the crew abandons your

only AT gun shouldn't mean they can't

come back, or other experienced troops

couldn't man it in a pinch.

Troops sometimes even manned the enemy's

weapon systems. Imagine chasing off

the crew from an 88 or a quad flak, and

then turning it towards the Germans! I wouldn't put it past Airborne, or the

Russians for that matter.

regards,

--Rett

[Wolfe]

I originally wrote: "trying to post"

Hmmm. Ok. I'll try breaking it into multiple messages. Ok, that worked.

While BTS doesn't usually respond to these types of threads (too many issues to discuss at one time), I'll put in my $0.02 anyway.

frag wrote:

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>I know that it was discussed, but the real number of man (not 3 men to represent 12)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I doubt this will ever happen; too taxing on the CPU (I have a 900MHz Athlon, and find the larger battles already too slow). And the extra figures would mostly just add clutter anyway.

Holdit wrote:

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>The ability to import CMBO units into CM2 so we can get all the new features on the Western Front.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think BTS has already said they would (or atleast try to) retrofit CM1 with new features from CM2 or allow you to play CM1 battles in CM2. Hopefully they can.

Luckystrike wrote:

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>A 'Follow' command or something similar<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

IIRC, BTS has already said this is very difficult and it likely won't make it even into CM2, unfortunately.

ajsl wrote:

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Visible planes.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Naaah. The unseen enemy is more frightening. We already have it's shadow. Although a large explosion off the side of the map (into the map boundaries, not on the map itself) indicating a downed aircraft and/or a parachute floating down would be a cool touch.

ajsl wrote:

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Browsable unit database with pictures.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

See: ASL for CM under add-ons. Or the one on my site:

http://users.erols.com/chare/cm/

No purty pictures in mine, though.

Nabla wrote:

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>a map with some approximate topological information<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Would be neat, but probably too hard to do. A toggleable grid would be helpful, though. BTW, there are gridded tiles over at CMHQ.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Multiple Slots for Vehicle Graphics<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes!, but don't kill poor Dan by forcing him to create all the variants. The game should ship with a more basic (low res, but still good looking ) texture set so it doesn't clog older systems, but allow for lots of variability. If not individual tanks, atleast separate the different tank models (i.e. G, H, J PzIV's all default to the basic set, but if other mods exist, then use those - like the Winter mods currently work).

CMplayer wrote:

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Building tiles similar to the blockhouse tiles, but which, when placed adjacent to each other, are considered to be part of the same building, i.e. permeable for movement inside. (both low and high). Partial collapse for such large buildings.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, definitely, but also keep the individual buildings which can't be move through except by 'mouse-holing'.

Also, if a corner of a building is destroyed, LOS into the interior of the building should change (you should be able to see further in, especially into the upper floors; though LOS may still be severely limited looking into the lower floor because of the building rubble).

- Chris

** continued in next post. **

[This message has been edited by Wolfe (edited 12-26-2000).]

[Wolfe]

Continued from the previous message:

Ok, trying not to repeat too much of what's already been said:

Heavier buildings which are nearly indestructible within CM's time scale.

Different tree bases for woods/pines. Currently you can't tell them apart.

The ability to edit the amount of MG ammo in vehicles. Although if it's already maxed out for the vehicles, then ignore that one.

Editable (text-based) prefs file. Sometimes I want to change the screen res, and don't want to have to reset all the other options too. Of course, you'll need to have a Default prefs file for when we end-users inevitably screw it up.

Toggleable bodies. Helps remove the clutter.

More unit slots. I know CM wasn't designed to fight huge battles, but 500 or 1000 units per side would satiate the sadist in all of us who occasionally want an enormous slug-fest.

More reinforcement slots.

As has been stated previously, the ability to import/export maps into/out of scenarios and ops. As well as the ability to import/export scenarios themselves into/out of ops.

Different length battles within one operation.

As Rommel22 said on the 1st page, more debriefings for operations. Having text screens explaining the next battle in an operation is critical to having a sense of flow and purpose throughout the operation.

More control over weather in ops, but keep the randomness of the current system too.

Ability to rotate map 90 degrees in the editor (change N/S/E/W sides). I've made this mistake a couple of times. And ability to flip a map too.

Ability to create foxholes in the editor. And to pre-dig-in infantry units in editor.

Ability to place terrain features like bocage, walls, etc rather than having specific full tiles. Ok, that's one's likely hard to do, but maybe for CM-II The Engine?

Different objectives. Some objectives which *must* be achieved or you lose regardless of the score. Brutal, but realistic.

And the ability to score points for holding objective 'X' for a number of turns.

Pre-destroyed units (tanks in particular) for battlefield aesthetics.

Non-editor stuff:

Saved games should never be able to over-write a scenario. Thankfully I haven't suffered from this one but a few folks have destroyed hours worth of work with this simple mistake.

Oh, and the roll-over highlighting 'Go' button is a cool idea to help prevent inadvertently ending your turn earlier than you wanted.

How about the ability to right-click on a scenario and see the first 6 or so lines of the briefing to get a better idea of what it's about. Although the scenario database is a huge step in that direction already. See the Boots'n'Tracks page on WBR.

A "calculation mode" where the game minimizes everything within the game that would drain CPU cycles away from doing its turn resolution (maybe even displaying nothing more than a black screen with only the blue calculation bar shown). I don't know how much having lots of polys displayed on the screen (or the smoke/fire animations) affects the calculation between turns, but anything that can speed up calculations would be much appreciated.

The ability to toggle on/off the ever-present fire and engines sounds. This gets real old after a while in large tank scenarios.

FWIW.

- Chris

[Vanir]

I just thought of one. I'd like to not have to change my desktop resolution every time I go into CM. I run my desktop at 1024x768, and CM at 1280x960. I have to change to 1280x960 before going into CM or it runs at whatever my desktop is at.

Also, how about some 32 bit color.

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You mean my Java coded Real Time Bar Fight Simulator Madmatt Mission: Beyond BiteMe ISN'T going to be published?!?

Madmatt

[Gremlin]

The range is probably too great for even the largest CM2 battles (?), but including the massive German Karlgerät tracked siege mortars (600mm and 540mm) would be very fun, if imbalanced You have to love guns nicknamed Thor and Odin.

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War is cruel and you cannot refine it. --Sherman

[This message has been edited by Gremlin (edited 12-26-2000).]

[Guest Michael emrys]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Vanir:

I just thought of one. I'd like to not have to change my desktop resolution every time I go into CM. I run my desktop at 1024x768, and CM at 1280x960. I have to change to 1280x960 before going into CM or it runs at whatever my desktop is at.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hmm. I have the opposite problem. I run my (Mac) desktop at 800X600. When CM launches, it changes to 640X480. I strongly suspect my ancient 3D card is responsible.

Michael

[Guest Michael emrys]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gremlin:

The range is probably too great for even the largest CM2 battles (?), but including the massive German Karlgerät tracked siege mortars (600mm and 540mm) would be very fun, if imbalanced You have to love guns nicknamed Thor and Odin.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

1. They would be depicted as off-board artillery.

2. Their rate of fire is so slow you would probably only get to fire them once or twice each battle. Would make a pretty big boom though (as long as you were using contact fuses)!

Michael

[Uedel]

Forgot something earlyer.

Allow Players to throw Troops in Campaigns after one Battle together.

Example i have 4 Squads consisting of 2 men each after 1 Battle in a Campaign, now they are nearly useless. If we be able to throwthem together we may get 1 Squad of 8 Men who can fight now again with efficence.

This could also lead to loss 1 Expierence Stage maybe from Veteran to Regular but it is still better then 4 2 men veteran Squads.

Greets

Uedel

[Kanonier Reichmann]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ASL Veteran:

A wish list? A flame free zone?

Well, we can always dream can't we? Remember, flame free zone!

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Damn, I was going to wish for better flame graphics but I'm not allowed to . Aren't I entitled to my own opinion and express it?

Regards

Jim R.

[Gryphon]

The ability to choose camo pre-battle, or have one standard camo for Waffen SS, WH, Russians etc. So you don't have 20 vehicles all with different camo (looks uhm..not nice).. also some general winter camo would be cool so i don't have to keep downloading mods. (nothing from with them though, excellent job modmakers!, i'm just lazy

Also ditch some of the fluffy bunny green gras for some battle scarred terrain with (huge) craters and stuff, better rubble, ie. ruins.

Dynamic lighting (is that possible with a game like CM?)

Smoother fire and smoke effects.

Smoother infantry effects and textures.

By the time this game comes out everyone will probably have an ueber pc anyway to handle all this

[This message has been edited by Gryphon (edited 12-27-2000).]

[Gremlin]

Ability to hide guns or AFV's in abandoned farm buildings. Ability to camouflage AFV's with debris. I've seen pictures of both of these. The latter in particular was quite effective; at first glance a Panther looked just like a pile of rubble in a bombed village, as its crew had thrown shutters, boards, and whatnot up against it at crazy angles.

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War is cruel and you cannot refine it. --Sherman

[Guest ajsl]

Wolfe said :

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>

See: ASL for CM under add-ons. Or the one on my site: http://users.erols.com/chare/cm/

No purty pictures in mine, though.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I probably wasn't clear enough here. I'm using those 3rd party DBs (and very usefull they are too) but what I was after was an integrated unit database, so I can see what I'm buying at the time without flipping back to the desktop

Cheers,

Alex.

[Gun Dog]

I dont know if this is the place to post this, but after playing CM, I have a

suggestion that I would like to share with the creators of the CM game system.

(If this is not the place to post this, I apologise and would appreciate guidance

to the appropriate b-board.)

One of the problems I find is I am spending alot of time micro-managing the

movement of my squads. Sometimes they become seperated and I have to manually pull them together or when crossing hedgerows or engaging the enemy, I have to manually bring all of them on-line.

It seems a button in the orders menu could help by letting the computer get them in a basic formation where I may only have to tweak it a little to meet the suitation.

To ease C&C of my units, I would like to see an additional 'bullet' in the orders menu, perhaps called 'Formations'. Upon clicking, we would be taken to a sub-menu where we could give our platoon orders followed by a direction of movement.

For example, one of the formations I would find immediately useful would be a 'Regroup' formation where the squads/spt weapons would consolidate around thier leader. Other nice formations would be 'Column' where the platoon would follow in trail (good for faster road movement), a 'Herring Bone' or 'Staggered Trail' where the platoon would assume a opened tactical column formation, a 'Line' where the platoon would come abreast (good for crossing hedgerows with minimum stragglers or engaging enemy)and possibly a 'V' formation.

I feel this would be a value-added feature. It would take some of the micro-management of moving squads off my hands (so I can concentrate on moving platoons), while not adding clutter if it was incorporated smoothly.

Thanks for producing a terrific product and I look forward to good things to come.

Gun Dog.

[Donald Ingram]

Most important : Please do not change anything that might lessen a superb game.

My wish list in no particular order.

1.) Multiplayer > 2. ie Each side can have more than one player. Some comms issues could be brought in like player X and player y on the same side are out of 'radio contact' etc. Also 'blue on blue' incidents could then be brought in to really ruin a good friendship.

2.) Buildings act like pillboxs or other units in that when you click on them you get stats such as building height, thickness of walls, amount of damage etc. In fact better all round modelling of buildings and therefore house to house fighting/slaughter. ie Higher zoom capability for buildings showing rooms etc. A battle for a building

could then become a mini CM all on it's own.

3.) Knocked out pillboxes can be re-occupied by units.

4.) Units with higher experience (veteran and above) can carry out more detailed commands. eg Anti-tanks guns to target only armour,

in command infantry ordered to conserve amunition, in commands units to share ammunition, forced withdrawal where units make a "run for it" regardless of consequence, tanks can attempt to repair damage (with possible exposure of crew), tanks to only use machine guns, small

units able to hide in wrecked vehicles, Snipers climbing tall pines to get a

better LOS and anything else that might reasonably occur on the battlefield. Also Elite and Crack platoon officers can command any unit in pretty much the way Company commanders do. Also veteran officers if close to tank can communicate with crew. Thereby allowing crew to fight buttoned up but with

normal visibility etc etc.

5.) Platoons can be edited in campaigns. ie 2 depleted sections can be combined into one full or over strength section.

6.) Ammunition supply units. ie A truck, mules or Brengun carrier can carry supplies.

7.) Operations to use fuel constrictions

8.) Improved operations design/code, where distance advanced is not necessarily equated with objectives taken etc. The operations art of CM is the weakest. However it has the potential to be the best (The Elite) of this type of game.

9.) The Russian front. Russian factory workers dishing Nazi pioneer Battalions on the Volga etc. Yes I know your doing it just

harking on so that you wont change it to Civil War in the Congo or something daft. Interested to see how Big Time model the commissar unit. Then again there's also all female assault units. Er I'll stop there.

10.) The AI beefed up. Ideally several variants on offer ie defensive, aggresive and mixed.

11.) Sound effects augmented. I'm sure I've heard one of my British units snarl out "b******d" with a Scottish accent. More of that please. Then again probably a hallucination from playing too much. Units givin lip to their commander when under duress adjusting for quality, soul survivor of crack unit will still out bark out SIR and salute etc. A Conscript may respond with something less enthusiastic.

12.) Suggest FO for artillery when firing blind and inexperienced (not veteran)can lead to horrible accidents. ie Shells landing nowhere near where they were

intended. Possibly off Map !

13.) End of game replay which shows all the game without fog of war. Also can then be saved to watch endlessly instead of TV. Also a screen which gives an analysis of each unit and how it did. Citations for bravery etc.

14.) Unit screen to allow quick selection of units.

15.) When tank main gun damaged machine guns may still be effective. I do not think this is the case at present. Also would like

ammunition to be maintained for secondary weapons on tanks and SPGs.

Also if tank main gun damaged the unit might leave the battlefield depending on quality.

16.) Ambush should not be a point but a distance to the front of a unit.

[Shogun_ger]

I think in Quick Battles is great when i see the map before i buyed Units!!

And points for infantry, amor and so on is free to choose, that is better for good tactics.

Thanks BTS

[Guest aka PanzerLeader]

This thread is so huge, I admit I haven't had the courage to read all of the messages...

My main wish is a refinement of the current Command and Control rules.

For example, u shouldn't be able to see what units that are out of C&C can see. And you shouldn't know the map so well before the battle(at least not the attacker, and certainly not in Russia!). I know this kind of Extreme Fog Of War has already been discussed to death long ago...

C&C should also be applied to tanks.

Overall, I'd like CM to become even more a simulation rather than a game.

[Gun Dog]

THIRD STORY BUILDINGS (or parts of buildings) so I can get my sharpshooters up in that steeple where they belong.

[Gun Dog]

I want to second UEDEL's post on;

- Scout/spotter/sniper units with a + for hide and spotting

- More and greater Variety of Buildings