The Commissar Posted October 5, 2000 Share Posted October 5, 2000 HI guys, I come to you with a problem which has been bothering me quite a bit lately. In several of my PBEM's where I am engaging in an infantry VS infantry battle, I am constantly faced with this annoying little problem most of the defenders do. They have their men in a building, and once my scouts find them out I concentrate lots and lots of firepower on the enemy. So far so good. Eventually, over the course of a few turns, the enemy is severely weakened and is forced into retreat. But, the enemy leaves a weakened squad or two behind in the buliding, to the rear of it, so I can't see them from the attacking side. Well, I can see them due to scouts and things of the sort, but the men I order to assault the building (which might very well be a key stepping stone to victory in a village battle) get butchered. Well, if I commit enough men to the building, they still take it but at high casualties. I don't LIKE high casualties, you see, especially in an infantry battle which de-evolves to a battle of attrition some time to the end, where every soldier counts. I was wondering if you guys had ways of dealing with this. I tried several things, like running across the space to the house, and telling my men to walk or even sneak the last few metres into the house so they would be ready. No difference, really. They still move forwards while returning little to no fire and get mopped down. Anyway, help would be appreciated. Thanks in advance fellers! ------------------ "...Every position, every meter of Soviet soil must be defended to the last drop of blood..." - Segment from Order 227 "Not a step back" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pillar Posted October 5, 2000 Share Posted October 5, 2000 You need to bypass the building or come at it from a different direction. Or just blow the sucker up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Commissar Posted October 5, 2000 Author Share Posted October 5, 2000 Thanks for the advice Pillar. Unfortunately, this isn't always possible. Example #1: My enemy is defending on a map with several large hills. He has around 5 infantry/flak guns (not sure which, haven't ID'ed them yet) which are really torturing my infantry. One of them is located way to my left flank, in the woods next to a heavy building. About 50 metres in front of the building is open ground all of which the gun (and the multiple machine gunners in the building itself protected by what I believe to be a Vet SS squad) covers with it's LOS. Needless to say, I REALLY want this position to not only roll up my enemie's flank, but to also get rid of the gun which is reaching all the way across the battlefield. In the last few turns, I have managed to get enough men to a woods on the extrreme left flank, drive out the SS squad and severely weaken them, and now positioned my men to the left of the house in question, the gun on the other side of the house. And here's that annoying little situation. My opponenet is hiding his stupid depleted squad in the back of the house where I can't reach it. My only choice: rush the house and hope for the best. Argh! I HATE losing men to annoying reasons ! Example 2: Another opponent and I are fighting an Infantry battle in a town. Buildings (heavy ones at that) all over the place. I managed to force my enemy back and weaken him with concentrated fire and numbers. Now as I rushed the 2 houses which used to be his "front line", half of my assault is killed off by that little son of a @#$%& !!! In either case, I had no way to "flank" the enemy positions. Open ground (or enemy forces) guarded the flank. It's a very annoying situation, that's for sure! ------------------ "...Every position, every meter of Soviet soil must be defended to the last drop of blood..." - Segment from Order 227 "Not a step back" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pvt. Ryan Posted October 5, 2000 Share Posted October 5, 2000 Solution: Wespe, Hummel, or Priest. In a current PBEM I targeted infantry inside a building with a few 60mm mortars and managed to light the building on fire. That wasn't my intention, but it does clear out the defending infantry rather nicely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Commissar Posted October 5, 2000 Author Share Posted October 5, 2000 Ryan. Appreciate the help, really I do, but as I previously mentioned this is an INFANTRY VS. INFANTRY battle. No AFV's, no tanks, not even HT's! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slapdragon Posted October 5, 2000 Share Posted October 5, 2000 Pillar in a nut shell said it all. Unsupported infantry in a building are meat for the taking. Close assaulting them except at night or in the fog is silly. If they are in the back, park a tank about 100 -200 meters away and shoot HE into the building until it falls. In an infantry vs infantry bypass the building. If it sits in a victory location use mortars or zooks to tumble it. Only close assault it if you have no other means to dislodge the enemy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorak Posted October 5, 2000 Share Posted October 5, 2000 Assuming you have no HE. Do you really need to take the building? Can you encircle the building and then attack the hidden squad from the back side? Also try attacking the building from two directions. This will cause the squad to: A) get shot in the back facing flanking fire (which also is a huge moral killer) or split thier firepower to fire at both attackers. Which also leads to a huge attacker advantage. When routing units out of buildings a multi-directional attack is about the only way to go. Lorak ------------------ "Do not wait to strike till the iron is hot; but make it hot by striking."--William Butler Yeats Cesspool Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wince Posted October 5, 2000 Share Posted October 5, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Pvt. Ryan: Solution: Wespe, Hummel, or Priest. In a current PBEM I targeted infantry inside a building with a few 60mm mortars and managed to light the building on fire. That wasn't my intention, but it does clear out the defending infantry rather nicely.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I usually just lay into the building with some heavy duty firepower. Eventually, the building crumbles and you no longer have to worry about your enemy. Heck! I've played games where I had three Tigers blasting buildings out of the way so I could get a better shot at my enemy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Commissar Posted October 5, 2000 Author Share Posted October 5, 2000 Hmm, good advice Lorak. I have very little space to manuever, but I will try that multi-directional assault. Answers to previous questions.. Yes, the buildings are in both cases vital to victory. In Example #1, they house not only a VL, but also a deadly gun and an enemy strongpoint which I feel needs to be eliminated unless I am to be flanked in the back if I ignore it (or try to, anyway). In Example #2, this building(s) are his front line, so to speak. Shattering this would break his back bone and divide him in half (from what my scouts tell me, anyway) Thanks for the help everyone! ------------------ "...Every position, every meter of Soviet soil must be defended to the last drop of blood..." - Segment from Order 227 "Not a step back" [This message has been edited by The Commissar (edited 10-04-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mother Theresa Posted October 5, 2000 Share Posted October 5, 2000 I have found that, if you have the numbers to do it, splitting squads helps to assault occupied buildings. You lose some on the firepower scale, but at that range you still have a lot. This makes the defending squad only shoot at one squad when defending the building. Yes, that half squad might get rocked a bit, but you will still take the building. Assaulting from 2 angles with 4 half squads seems to break the moral of the defending troops very quickly. Also, bring a commander (HQ unit) along in the assault, preferably one with combat bonus. Units in line of sight (command control) assault better as well. Another thing to note is which squads have grenades and or satchel charges left or which squad has the most close quarter weapons (smg's for the most part), send in the squads with the close quarters support and then follow up the assault with some support squads so that the assaulting squad does not have to defend the building too, give em a little bit of a break to recoup lost moral. Hope this helps. -Mother Theresa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GriffinCheng+ Posted October 5, 2000 Share Posted October 5, 2000 Yep, infantry in building is real meat grinder. I remember at early time (Fionn? BTS?) that you really need at least 3-1 to win a small building. My solution: fire and firepower -- shoot the building, not the enemy. Have a tank/GMC/SPA are great, for they are relatively more accurate. If you don't have them handy, try oba, infantry guns and large mortars also work fine. Flamethrower units or flame-throwing afv are not so good for you have go < 50m for a hit but if they survive, it effectively flushes the rats out of their hole (sorry, can't help, I really hate those enemy hidden in a building ). The last choices would be using bombs, tnt packs, etc, for they have to move real close to the target building. However, I find hollow charges : recoiless, zook or fraust do not work well against buildings. But firing from the building is another matter. Griffin. ------------------ "+" is just the beginning. Expect to see "GriffinCheng76", "GriffinCheng(105)" or "GriffinChengA3E8" more should Forum problems occur again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdmorse Posted October 5, 2000 Share Posted October 5, 2000 I seem to remember that some one advised move/run up to outside of building but use sneak to enter it as a more effective way than just running in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeski Posted October 5, 2000 Share Posted October 5, 2000 Heavy area Area fire on the building istelf will bring it down it 2 to 3 turns. It wastes ammo but drops the building. Just a thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olle Petersson Posted October 5, 2000 Share Posted October 5, 2000 Is there something I've missed? Yes, I didn't read it thoroughly... Cheers Olle [This message has been edited by Olle Petersson (edited 10-05-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScoutPL Posted October 5, 2000 Share Posted October 5, 2000 Do it the way the professionals do it. A quick overview: isolate your target building. This can be done in a number of ways. THe best is through support by fire positions to the front and flanks. This can be achieved by placing a unit on the two front corners, this way you cover all three sides. Use artillery fires to cover the back. Small arms, direct fire to the front and indirect fires in the rear isolates the building. This means no ones coming in or out with out suffering casualties. Just before you assault the building shut off some of the fire. Try to maintain the indirect to the rear as this will finish off anyone that tries to escape. Building seizures require the same amount of practice and timing that a bunker does. If you dont have the assets to make such an attack then you've wasted too many troops earlier in the fight. Headlong skirmishes in the begining will often drain you down to the point you cant fight effectively in the end, which just costs you more casualties. Every piece of ground must be taken methodically and with precision. This takes time and patience to master but will pay off in Major Victorys once you get it. DO NOT destroy the building. It can be taken easily taken if assaulted with 2 to 1 odds. Then the bad guy has to gather the strength to muster up 4 squads to take it back! Its just another hole in open ground that YOU will have to cross otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeadams Posted October 5, 2000 Share Posted October 5, 2000 In a word...smoke. This allows you to get to another angle without being slaughtred by flanking fire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mother Theresa Posted October 5, 2000 Share Posted October 5, 2000 I say we take off and nuke the sight from orbit, it's the only way to be sure. -MT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maj. Bosco Posted October 5, 2000 Share Posted October 5, 2000 If it's just an inf game and you don't have the luxury of HE use inf mortars. As the allies you almost certainly have them (you can't get away from those little dormice as the brits...) Just lay down some fire into the building with the inf mortars and send in your guys while they're still firing. Worst case scenario you lose a guy or two to your own mortars but the enemy troops are ducked and coverd on the ground. Also use the right inf for the right job. For long range use the Amis rifle squads. Up close use the brit or amis airborne stuff. Plenty of smgs and carbines in those. As the axis, use SMG squads, Sicherung... basically anything with a couple of MP44's. They'll sweep anything out of a building. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Clark Posted October 5, 2000 Share Posted October 5, 2000 HA HA HA HAAAAA!!! I'm never coming out of the building Commissar!!! I just have to hold on for a few more turns... Welcome to the meat grinder! (By the way... that's a LOT of guys you have out there! From what I can see anyway, hiding in the building as I am...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wwb_99 Posted October 5, 2000 Share Posted October 5, 2000 Situations like this are why the Germans invented infantry guns. WWB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IntelWeenie Posted October 5, 2000 Share Posted October 5, 2000 If you have some on-board mortars (you will if you're the brits), they usually have some smoke rounds. These can help screen your assauting troops, but the timing can be tricky. ------------------ Cats aren't clean, they're covered with cat spit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pvt. Ryan Posted October 5, 2000 Share Posted October 5, 2000 Commissar, sorry, I did not read your question carefully enough. However, the serious part of my response should have contained some helpful info. You can use on board mortars to either destroy or torch the building, or at least panic the troops inside. Then you move at least two squads into the building and finish off the occupants. The defenders can only fire at one of your squads, so the other one can lay into the enemy. You may still suffer a couple of casualties, but your losses should be acceptable. It also helps if your sqauds are in C&C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pillar Posted October 5, 2000 Share Posted October 5, 2000 After reviewing this thread, I'd say the best advice someone could offer you is not to make the same mistake twice. All your problems lie in the nature of your approach. You need to rethink the way you assault in general, and not worry so much about this one building you are having a problem with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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