Is it possible to use the PIAT anti-tank to suppress units in a building?

[Simicro]

Hi Mates,

I'm happy to join the 'sub-community' of CMFI 

I'm having a hard time with scenario 'Kiwi Soldiers' (Gustav Line)...

1) Is it possible to use a PIAT to suppress units in a building (in this case a railway station)?

I already understood that I have first to split the Anti-Tank Team (2 soldiers) using the Special Menu. So done.

2) Then I target the building but the 2 guys are shooting with their rifles and not the PIAT?

3) I'm also wondering if I can make a hole in the building by shooting several times with the PIAT?

 

[Chibot Mk IX]

Yes

And in fact almost all the man-portable anti-tank launchers in CM's WW II title are very effective against troops in buildings. 

I have seen a panzerfaust took out six soviet troops in a wooden building. 

 

Sometime it could be a little tricky to have the AT Team to use their launcher, but what is the distance in your case?

[Halmbarte]

I usually have the opposite problem when the troopies gladly use all their AT weapons against enemy infantry and are down to throwing grenades at tanks when those show up... 

The target command will generally have the soldiers open up with everything they have, including AT weapons, on the targeted unit. 

H

[womble]

7 hours ago, Simicro said:

3) I'm also wondering if I can make a hole in the building by shooting several times with the PIAT?

Building walls will collapse if enough of any HE is applied. I'm not sure a PIAT (or any of the man-portable AT chucker) teams carries enough to do the job though, if you can get them shooting at the target.

It's a bit strange that the screenshot shows the AT weapon as being employed there, both in the silhouette display and the 'in-world' picture, yet there's only outgoing rifle fire. Perhaps the location only lets the pTruppe with the rifle target the railway station? The display of what each pTruppe is doing is cropped from the image. That might tell you whether the AT operator is actually aiming-firing and (eventually) reloading.

[Bulletpoint]

It will definitely suppress them if you hit, but suppression in CM wears off quite fast usually, and they will likely be back up firing befire you can reload the PIAT.

[Simicro]

Thanks all for your answers. Much appreciated.

Chibot Mk IX: Distance is 81 m but I've tried also 60 m.

Halmbarte: Indeed I used the Target Command. Please see screenshot.

womble: in the screenshot below we can see that the anti-tank guy is firing (green fonts the left), but on the picture he is not holding the PIAT. Recently in CMBN I could break an entire wall but shooting continously with a HMG.

Bulletpoint: yep I am aware that suppression effect dissapear quickly but thanks for the reminder.

In the screenshot below, the 2 'white' buildings is the railway station.

Can someone confirm that if my AT Team shoots properly I should see an explosion on the building due to the impact and the size of the ammo?

 

 

[Brille]

I guess the railway station is made out of bricks ?

Then the PIAT will have a hard time tearing a wall down...at least on it´s own.

However it can supress and kill it´s occupants. I wouldn´t say it does it very effectively but if you need that extra firepower for a strong point I would probably go for it.

Though you might want to save it´s ammo if you expect enemy armor around.

 

If you give them a target order they should use the PIAT too. Maybe use a "target briefly" command for 15 or 30 seconds, so they don´t use up all their ammo for one position.

 

To add to all of this: All the Combat Missions have a simple to understand scenario editor. I´m not a scenario or mapmaker but I regularily use it to make some shooting ranges. So I can test what weapon penetrates what or what damage I can expect on certain ranges and so forth.

Here you could test how many rounds a PIAT would take to demolish a brick/clay/wooden wall of a house or what damage it can make on the inside or how reliable it is to hit oncertain distances.

 

I like the PIAT very much and I would say it is my favorite man portable AT weapon in the WW2 games. It might lack the penetration of a Panzerschreck but it can be fired indoors without negative effects.

And it is stealthy enough to get some shots of without turning to public enemy no.1  to all opposing troops in the vicinity due to the far less smoke buildup.

Edited May 1, 2023 by Brille

[Brille]

10 minutes ago, Simicro said:

Can someone confirm that if my AT Team shoots properly I should see an explosion on the building due to the impact and the size of the ammo?

If the team shoots it properly you should see the PIAT in the hands of the soldier and you should see an explosion or projectile of course if they do.

In the picture you see it on the back of the soldier and in the "equipment panel" there is also his rifle equipped. So they aren´t shooting the PIAT or don´t tend to shoot it in this moment.

Though I do not know how eager they are to use the PIAT (or any weapon in general) in their pinned state.

 

At least they have all of their 6 round available so they didn´t shot once with it. At least if you haven´t picked up extra round from Bren carriers or so.

Edited May 1, 2023 by Brille

[Simicro]

Hi Brille,

Many thanks for your detailed insights and explanations. Yeah my screenshot shows the soldier in a pinned state but even before that he won't shoot with the PIAT. You are right, I'm gonna use the scenario editor to test weapons and get a better understanding on how they work, effective distance, etc.

Meanwhile, through several threads, I've discovered that the 'Kiwi Soldiers' scenario, even if small, is tough and poses a real tactical challenge. Being fresh new, I thought this small scenario was good for me but maybe I will skip it momentarily.

[womble]

I think you might be hitting some sort of sighting issue where, when the AT guy has the PIAT out, he can't get a bead on the building, perhaps due to the low hedges, but is, for some reason, able to with his rifle. It might not be meant to work this way. If you're doing some testing, your results over relatively uncluttered terrain might show that it's the vegetation that's the problem, if setting up with a "clear" shot at the same range and target type allows the PIAT to shoot.

 

[Simicro]

4 hours ago, womble said:

I think you might be hitting some sort of sighting issue

I think so because I moved the unit to a quite different area and it could shoot with the PIAT on the building! And I could see the explosion on the walls 

[womble]

1 hour ago, Simicro said:

I think so because I moved the unit to a quite different area and it could shoot with the PIAT on the building! And I could see the explosion on the walls 

Hooray. Looks like you found some sort of edge case where the pTruppen's firing position with the AT is different (lower) to the position when using his rifle. It's probably the tiniest difference, just means the little hedges obscure the PIAT's view of the target while not blocking the SMLE's from the same nominal position.

[Simicro]

Thanks for your help mate!