Wotan Posted April 10, 2000 Share Posted April 10, 2000 Hi, my name is Wotan, and I....I.....(gulp)..., I like to play the Allied side in war games! ( stunned silence ) I know, I know, I'm a freak, I admit it. I used to be just like you all. All a twitter over those pretty tanks and black uniforms. But it just got too easy. Playing SP1 as the Germans, I whooped some serious behind, let me tell ya! And Panzer General! Don't get me started! I even captured Moscow! ( and then lost it, then recaptured it! then lost it again, then rerecaptured it! etc, etc.) I mean, who could lose, with all those Panther Gs and Tiger IIs? I'd walk through Kursk in PZ on a whim, as a little light war gaming. Stroll through North Africa, heading for the Caucus(es?). And then, becoming bored with it all, I switched sides! I know, pretty radical, eh? I had a blast being the Brits in North Africa! I shed tears of joy the first time my Churchill knocked out a Tiger( well, maybe it was hay fever ). And the Americans! I can admit this now: I LOVE THE SHERMAN TANK! Boy, it feels good to get that off my chest. And now for something completely differant: 1. Are there going to be Fireflies in CM:BO? (How many of you know that an American tank unit in Italy was issued Fireflies? They did not get to use them in combat, though. ) 2. Are there going to be TOT (time on target) arty barrages in CM:BO in scenarios late in 44 and after? also, 3. What about air burst fuses for arty? We started using these in Dec 44, Battle of the Bulge. 4. Are there going to be (oh please, please, please) Calliopis in CM:BO? (you know the 40 rocket launcher on a M4A3) also, I've read on this site where American 105mm arty is called heavy arty????!! Come on! That's light arty, man! Even our 155 howitzers are sometimes classifed as medium! When we ( US ) mean heavy arty, we mean HEAVY ARTY! I want 8 inchers screaming overhead! I want to feel the earth shake under 240mm round impacts. I want to use my M12 as a 155mm sniper rifle! I want Typhoons spitting 5 inch rockets like they are a dime a dozen! I want Thunderbolts pouring 50 cal rounds and Invaders spewing 500lbers! I WANT ALL THIS AND MORE AND I CAN'T EVEN PLAY THE &%$#&& DEMO BECAUSE *%($#^* WINDOWS NT DOESN'T HAVE DIRECT X!!!!!!!! I WANT(&^%*#($*$&$&(#@)@_$(*FJJSMMSL.................( sound of a strait jacket being put on ) ------------------ I probably should of called myself S/SGT Lafayette Pool or maybe Lt Col Creighton Abrams... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Sabot Posted April 10, 2000 Share Posted April 10, 2000 Originally posted by Wotan: Hi, my name is Wotan, and I....I.....(gulp)..., I like to play the Allied side in war games! ( stunned silence ) **Why do i get the feeling that Fionn is going to pop some serious wood when he reads this one 1. Are there going to be Fireflies in CM:BO? (How many of you know that an American tank unit in Italy was issued Fireflies? They did not get to use them in combat, though. ) 2. Are there going to be TOT (time on target) arty barrages in CM:BO in scenarios late in 44 and after? also, 3. What about air burst fuses for arty? We started using these in Dec 44, Battle of the Bulge. 4. Are there going to be (oh please, please, please) Calliopis in CM:BO? (you know the 40 rocket launcher on a M4A3) **Seek (search) and ye shall find! I want 8 inchers screaming overhead! I want to feel the earth shake under 240mm round impacts. I want to use my M12 as a 155mm sniper rifle! I want Typhoons spitting 5 inch rockets like they are a dime a dozen! I want Thunderbolts pouring 50 cal rounds and Invaders spewing 500lbers! I WANT ALL THIS AND MORE AND I CAN'T EVEN PLAY THE &%$#&& DEMO BECAUSE *%($#^* WINDOWS NT DOESN'T HAVE DIRECT X!!!!!!!! I WANT(&^%*#($*$&$&(#@)@_$(*FJJSMMSL.................( sound of a strait jacket being put on ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted April 10, 2000 Share Posted April 10, 2000 1. Yes 2. No (it's a scale issue) 3. Yes. 4. No ( again, range issue). FWIW... I don't think the Sherman is a bad tank. It's a great Anti-personnel vehicle and I'd rather have a Sherman behind me than no tank at all. Unfortunately for it the 75 and 76mm guns just didn't hack it against German armour in late 44 onwards (except for light panzerjaegers and Pz IVs of course). I was actually glad to see a lot of people change their tune on the Shermans after seeing them in action in Riesberg and Chance Encounter. Once Shermans aren't in a high lethality anti-tank environment they are truly devastating. Overall though it always comes down to the skill of the commanders. A good player with Sherman 75s should beat a Schwere Panzer Kompanie commanded by a novice. Of course, regardless of all that, you'll have to fight hard to get me to abandon my Panzers . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rune Posted April 10, 2000 Share Posted April 10, 2000 1. Are there going to be Fireflies in CM:BO? The Fireflys are in, and are a thing to be feared, even in a Tiger. 2. Are there going to be TOT (time on target) arty barrages in CM:BO in scenarios late in 44 and after? also, More of an operation thing. You call in the arty strikes with your FOs. If you want the arty to continue, you let them, if you call them off after a minute, arty stops. Remember, at the CM level, Arty is only used tactically, the barrage had already came and gone. 3. What about air burst fuses for arty? We started using these in Dec 44, Battle of the Bulge. VT is in, and look for an article written by JonS and edited by me that I passed over to Fionn to post. 4. Are there going to be (oh please, please, please) Calliopis in CM:BO? (you know the 40 rocket launcher on a M4A3) Nope. One of these on the map would fire clean off the map. [CCIV users, and they don't land on the opposite side of houses either ] 5. Arty size, again this is operational for the big guns. BUT there are scenarios with 8", 155s, and even 14" guns. These should be used sparingly, but they are there. 6. Aircraft are in. The type is generic, but can be armed with rockets, bombs, and guns. You don't get to pick as a ground pounder, you get what comes... 7. Get Windows 2000, it works with that. Usual beta disclaimers....yadda yadda yadda Rune Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s bakker Posted April 10, 2000 Share Posted April 10, 2000 What ? A 'confession' that you play the Allied in wargames ? Geez, can't imagine playing only one 'side' on any game, Axis or Allied or whatever. Me thinks the fun with a game as CM is that you have many different 'sides'; German army, SS (well, side?), American, British, Polish and Canadian ........ And toy around with all the different pieces of equipment. As for playing the Germans ... well speaking for myself as a tank enthousiast it's always fun to play with the 'bad boys' because they got all the 'cool stuff'. But then again blowing up the 'cool stuff' with your 'not so cool stuff' will be more of a challenge and satisfactory won't it? Now give me those comets and i am gonna whack that jagdpanther Sir ! Grtz S Bakker. [This message has been edited by s bakker (edited 04-10-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Madmatt Posted April 10, 2000 Share Posted April 10, 2000 By the way Wotan, save the extra :BO you keep adding to the abreviation of Combat Mission. Just CM baby! Thats all you need! Somehow saying CM:BO just doesn't roll off the tongue as well and I keep thinking of Body Odor when I read that! Madmatt ------------------ If it's in Combat Mission, it's on Combat Mission HQ! combathq.thegamers.net [This message has been edited by Madmatt (edited 04-10-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ol' Blood & Guts Posted April 10, 2000 Share Posted April 10, 2000 I second that, Madmatt. 'CM' is all you need, baby! Hell, the first time I saw the 'BO', I'm thinking, "What's 'BO'?" Then after a slap on the forehead, I'm like, "Oh!" Especially sooo close to release date. ------------------ "I am not interested in the names of your fathers...nor of your family's lineage. What I am interested in...is your breaking point!"--Gen. Chang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SS_PanzerLeader Posted April 10, 2000 Share Posted April 10, 2000 Obviously my prefs are germs -but can play either side I do notice much more effectiveness form the allies in CM so far Unlike other nameless games where winning as allies became an art form ------------------ SS_PanzerLeader.......out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Posted April 11, 2000 Share Posted April 11, 2000 I'd rather play the Germans for a few reasons : 1) They got the best weapons : armor, aircraft, MG, etc. and they make up for any of the bad decision or stupid ones I make. 2) More to it though, I've read many books on WWII and especially those on distinctive division (Panzer-Lehr, GD, LSAAH) and I kinda grow compassion for those brave soldiers (I don't say that the Allied were not so brave). They lost everything. Moreover, they had everything to win : good soldiers, excellent material (esp after 1943), great Generals. But one major flaw : Hitler. He made good decisions in the early war but taking over the entire enemy was the worst move. The repression against the Ukranian people, who were happy to be delivered from the soviet grasp, was the dummest thing ever. There is more examples but it would take days. That's the main reason why I play the Germans. See ya guys around. BTW CM RULES ! ------------------ Veni, vidi, vici Julius Caesar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Fox Posted April 11, 2000 Share Posted April 11, 2000 Yeah, well I like to play the allies because all that whining about duty and honour while embarking without a shred of conscience on a war of aggression and riding roughshod over most continental Europe while imposing untold misery upon countless innocents being led by the nose by a raving meglomaniac makes me want to kick their dumb German butts all the way back to Germany. If it wasn't for Hitler.... well a big rasberry to that concept! BLERGHHHH! ------------------ "Heaven sent and hell bent Over the mountain tops we go Just like all the other GI Joes EE-AY-EE-AY adios!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted April 11, 2000 Share Posted April 11, 2000 Cripes, you were talking about the Germans? Coulda sworn you were talking about the British Empire Then I remembered that the roughshod and misery upon countless innocents applied only to non-Europeans. Hehe... couldn't resist Steve [This message has been edited by Big Time Software (edited 04-11-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
von Lucke Posted April 11, 2000 Share Posted April 11, 2000 Uh, my name's von Lucke, and I'm a recovering Teutonic... That said, I have to admit that I... um... like to play the Brits! There, I said it! I'm out of the closet --- and I feel so free! Free I tell you! I'm sorry, but it was just too easy popping a whole column of Sherman's with a single Tiger! I... I... needed the hard stuff! I needed more of a challenge! And what more challenge is there than taking a squadron of Cruiser tanks (unsupported by infantry, of course) in a mad charge against a single well dug-in 88, and actually having one tank survive! Call me a masochist, but there is nothing like triumphing in the face of overwhelming odds! Pip, pip, lads! For King and country! Close your eyes and think of England... [This message has been edited by von Lucke (edited 04-11-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Fox Posted April 11, 2000 Share Posted April 11, 2000 Upon my word! The British Empire brought civilisation (cricket) to countless ignorant savages giving them the benefit of some good British cooking too, not like that damnable muck they were used to eating! How dare you suggest good old Queen Vicky was a raving meglomaniac! I think you could probably class the Boers as European, they certainly weren't indigenous. Anyway, apart from a few hiccups the British Empire was a relatively benign enterprise compared to Adolf's Reich (rum chap that!) or even other European colonial powers. Unfortunately it showed that the British army was principally a colonial one by organisation and training when it came up against a European army rather than one armed with spears and antiquated firearms. Though it would be incorrect to apply that generalisation entirely in the timeframe of CM (ie '44on). Tally ho! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miyamoto Musashi Posted April 11, 2000 Share Posted April 11, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jeff: Moreover, they had everything to win : good soldiers, excellent material (esp after 1943), great Generals. But one major flaw : Hitler. He made good decisions in the early war but taking over the entire enemy was the worst move. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Yep, Hitler wasn't much of a strategist... he was a master at politics and motivation, but acted like he had a chick-pea for a brain when it came to military matters for the most part. And even aside from all the obvious gaffs (insisting to force Britain to submit through airpower rather than invasion, deciding to fight a two-front war by bringing Russia into the conflict, siding with perennial superpower Italy... yikes..., pushing too hard to take Stalingrad rather than more tactically advantageous targets...) he made one of the most crucial mistakes when he started the war in 1939. Hitler had told his admiralty that war would not begin until 1945-46 at the earliest. As a result, the German navy put in the works a plan to have a complete navy finished by 1945. This complete navy would include the battleship element that they did indeed have by or soon after 1939 (Graf Spee, Bismarck, Scharnhorst, Gneisenau), PLUS a more complete destroyer and cruiser element, PLUS... aircraft carriers. Imagine what the German navy would have been in the Atlantic (or the Pacific, for that matter) if they had a carrier fleet with dedicated German aircraft on board... it really is a frightening thought... or at least it should be Oh, and one Hitler gaff I forgot to add... he insisted that the Me-262, the German jet fighter, be used as a fighter-bomber, rather than just an unstoppable interceptor. The delay caused only a few 262s to be produced in time to use... they would have been out much earlier otherwise and surely would have taken a heavy toll of Allied bombers and fighters over Germany. Anyways, FWIW... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Madmatt Posted April 11, 2000 Share Posted April 11, 2000 I too used to subscribe to the unstoppable ME-262 myth but allot of what I have read and seen over the years has made me change my opinion. First off there were many mechanical and design problems that kept the ME-262's from being deployed in larger numbers. The Luftwaffe as well as every other branch of the German military had long learned on how to 'bend' the truth to keep Hitler happy when he dished out an Operational Order with no sounding on reality (well at least some of the smaller ones) and when he asked that the Me-262's be deployed as bombers they said "Sure sure..." and then went right along with the original Bomber Interceptor role primarily. Also the ME-262's dominance of the sky only lasted until its inherient weaknesses were displayed. The 30mm cannon were prone to jamming (faulty feed mechanism IRRC) in high G manouvers and the speed of the craft made headon passes against the bomber formations a neccesasity. The low ammo amount (2 cannon with 80 rounds and 2 with 100 IIRC) also only allowed the plane a few short bursts of fire before they were depleted. The plane was crippled by a very short cruising range and Allied planes could wait near the German airbases and attack the ME-262's once they were inbound after an intercept mission. Now of course those 30's were incredibly deadly no doubt about it but there was only a brief oppertunity to actually engage bombers during the intial pass. Even Adolf Galland only scored 4 kills (all B-26's) in his '262 and two of those were from a single rocket salvo on April 16 1945 (the other two were on April 26 and 1 B-26 was downed when his R4M failed to arm and he went guns up, and his last kill right before he was wounded and crash landed after being shot up from a P47) No 1 weapon, except for perhaps the Atomic Bomb, was going to decide the course of the war. I agree that the ME-262 was a cool plane (I visit one up at the Wright Patterson AFB almost weekly! ) but I doubt that it could or would have been much more than it already was, just another excellant weapon of war. ------------------ If it's in Combat Mission, it's on Combat Mission HQ! combathq.thegamers.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedy Posted April 11, 2000 Share Posted April 11, 2000 Von Lucke- sounds like all four corners of that foreign field are forever England Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miyamoto Musashi Posted April 11, 2000 Share Posted April 11, 2000 I'm definitely not saying the 262 was unstoppable... my point was that the losses would have been theoretically much greater if the 262 had been introduced earlier in the war. You would assume that the excellent German rocketry/engineer corps would have ironed out many of the 262s problems very soon after it had been introduced, had the war not been all but over. It's true that the Luftwaffe may have placated Hitler while producing the fighter "as is," but his insistence on carrying a 1000-kg bomb did delay actual production. Now from what I've read, the 262 was produced with some bomb-carrying capability to begin with. The delay was most likely caused by the manufacturers reluctance to convert the fighter to this larger bomb capability. Of course, problems with take-off and landing and the low-powered turbojet also delayed full-fledged production, but that doesn't help my case so I won't mention that Either way, Matt is right... no one weapon can win a war... but few weapons, modern ones included, look as cool or deadly as the 262. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Madmatt Posted April 11, 2000 Share Posted April 11, 2000 Agreed on all points! It was one Hella Cool looking bird... My fighter of choice while flying for the fatherland in EAW too! Madmatt ------------------ If it's in Combat Mission, it's on Combat Mission HQ! combathq.thegamers.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted April 11, 2000 Share Posted April 11, 2000 No way Matt. It has got to be an FW-190 A8 with external 20 mm cannon packs. That little staple used to get me 10+ kills per mission in SWOTL and I can get 6 to 7 B17s per mission in EAW using it too . Nothing says "DIe American schweinhund" like 8 x 20mm cannon firing in synch. ( I save the MGs for cripples.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miyamoto Musashi Posted April 12, 2000 Share Posted April 12, 2000 Ah, SWOTL... what a fantastic game that was I flew a lot of sorties in the 262 in that one... My fave German plane to fly in a simulation, though, has to be the Bf-109. I love boring into a column of... well, a column of anything... with the nose and wing cannons flashing away. What a rush The 190 is sweet too, but I have a warm spot for the 109... just one of those things, I guess... Although, I have to say, I REALLY enjoy watching old films of the Stuka... it was no multipurpose aircraft by any means, but you've got to love the whining scream as it dove for a target... >>Oh, and I see I've finally attained the coveted "member" status... wow... I feel all a-glow << Of course, my all-time favorite aircraft to fly in a sim is the F-4U Corsair, but that's a different theater, different side and different branch of service [This message has been edited by Miyamoto Musashi (edited 04-11-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killmore Posted April 12, 2000 Share Posted April 12, 2000 Finally someone mentioned SWOTL! I loved that game. Specially ability to end war early (like 1 march 1945) I had strategy on big and small scale. And it was reasonable easy and fun at the same time. Not a unflyable sim of today... And not EAW where you always meet 20 enemy planes! The planes you met depended on number and type of squadrons still operational. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trooper Posted April 12, 2000 Share Posted April 12, 2000 I can sympathise with that first post.. Frequently in games of Combined Arms (Tabletop miniatures) I'll have a company of M60s with my Abrams, or Chieftans with my Challengers and so on, just for the sake of variety, and having some more interesting units on the table (And also some that require a little more care!) whereas my opponent usually would take the very latest T-80Us in regimental strength when they were only put in production in December of the year the scenario is set! Oh well... I'm an Axis player in Command Decision though. My Italian Armored division has crumbled in the face of many determined British defenses! (Actually, in defense, the Italians aren't quite that bad in CD terms.. could be worse. Every try playing a wargame with 1940 Belgians? Man, did I get massacred) NTM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hakko Ichiu Posted April 12, 2000 Share Posted April 12, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Trooper: I'm an Axis player in Command Decision though. My Italian Armored division has crumbled in the face of many determined British defenses! (Actually, in defense, the Italians aren't quite that bad in CD terms.. could be worse. Every try playing a wargame with 1940 Belgians? Man, did I get massacred) <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> That's interesting -- and probably indicative of a bias on the part of the designers -- since the Belgians fought well in 1940, better than the French overall, if John Keegan is to be believed. Much of their problem stemmed from their strategic dispositions and lack of armor, rather than a lack of fighting spirit. Ethan ------------------ Das also war des Pudels Kern! -- Goethe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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