Berlin CMRT Map

[Lucky_Strike]

14 hours ago, RockinHarry said:

Think at least for Berlin map we can get rid of them all. A more generic looking one replacing the Tudor should do the trick I think. Just adding variations most likely won´t help for the game engine´s random swapping. Quite a nuisance and one that BFC keeps ignoring for long time.

I do wonder if BF do this on purpose just to annoy us! I also gotta question if they've ever been to Europe? Perhaps they came to the UK where we're fond of a bit of mock tudor ... 

14 hours ago, RockinHarry said:

just looking at them in Blender makes me headaches already.

Makes me  I quite often end up nodding off in front of a tree model.

[Lucky_Strike]

14 hours ago, NPye said:

Great photos and research bud, some i haven't seen and very useful. Loving the new sized Chim.....

12 hours ago, NPye said:

You found exact place bud... I will extend the Reichstag maps to incorpoarte this beauty. Cheers

12 hours ago, NPye said:

Here's a 1943 Aerial, really hard to place the chim but it's there???

Hehe, I was going to post a screen grab of the block from the mastermap so you could see roughly where the chimney goes but I see you're one step ahead. I'll post this which is (inexplicably) the factory that was in use ...

Ain't it cute ... don't get this, when they already had a better sized factory/chimney combo ... I do think the scale overall of a lot of the buildings on the Berlin master maps is just too small, lots of it looks too dinky like some small town rather than a capital city. What you're doing, in contrast, is light years ahead. It just feels so much more like a city in ruins.

9 hours ago, NPye said:

I've added this section for the Chimney... This is how I build the city maps, all in sections, I copy the aerial map as much as i can, with artistic license of course. I use the 5 Story Indie Build as a layout guide, as it's easy to delete and replace if I get the layout wrong. Once happy I will study the area from aerial maps and photos of the selected site. Then I will and some different Modular builds to give it some variety and to try and match what i've found on the map ie if it's a Factory or a Neoclassical Building, or maybe a shop or a Ministry, line of shops, Bahnhof etc. This is far from perfect but gives the desired impression. Then its over to damage and I use photographs to get a rough idea where this was. I raise the height and use the rubble and other ground textures to simulate the damage plus smash up the buildings, then last of all add some flavour objects. Then hopefully I got a reasonable Berlin Map that is influenced by the real layout in 1945. Cheers 

BTW The Chimney looks to me like the same height as the Reichstag, which is 47m tall????

I get the Aerial Maps from this website:

https://ncap.org.uk/

 Great organisation and process, really shows in your maps. Almost a shame to destroy it, but I absolutely admire your determination to get this right. Course you know you're gonna have to tackle Cologne and Aachen amongst others, at some point 

Re the chimney height - I was going by the height of the buildings directly around it. Most are 4 or 5 storeys and it looked just over twice their height. Given the buildings are mostly large townhouse/apartment and office style I reckoned room height 2.5-3m so I got about 30m. A substantial chunk of the Reichstag was missing by 45, but comparing those images we have suggests the chimney height was below the top of the remaining dome by a few metres, which gives us a height of around 35-40m. The ones on the other side of the Spree look about the same so I wonder if they had some regulations regarding height.

With both your aerial photo and the other contemporary photos I think you can situate the chimney in about the middle of that block. Shame the factory is at an angle, but like I said that's something we can't change at the moment.

Do you think you can clip me a section of your latest map where you have the Brandenburg Gate so I can get the scale of it right to fit into your map. I'm considering making the model ready ruined, or at least roofless, as that'll probably be easier than trying to add all the extra textures for intact and ruined. Don't really know yet will have to see what I can do re the middle section.

 

[Lucky_Strike]

7 hours ago, JM Stuff said:

Hola guys awesome job again here, I am not actif for two days and I have to read a lot about you, but really sometimes you Lucky and you Harry when you give explanations you are too deep in the subject that me I cannot follow, sometimes too techniques, when you are talking about Meta and x plus z things, I try to follow but when you are not yourself in a project, you are lost and I am lost, have also to renove for Chrismas the home... so ! !...  anyway the forum is on life and this is the most important, I am making a short vid for the CMBS wrecks but also complete the others modules, and was working also on the Jap Helmet, now that I am convert files with PS all is much better, soon I will give to Bootie, following by CMRT I hope before Chrismas.

hey Npye are waiting so hurry up...(just joking) awesome job guys.

JM 

Hehe, a lot of our chatter is just us thinking out loud as we learn what we're able to do. Don't worry too much about x, y, z and meta for now, if we get it figured we'll share it on here for sure. I hope your baublesare getting polished ready for Christmas, must say I haven't even thought about Christmas yet!

Glad to hear you found a PS to sort your bmps - now your Japanese helmets can really shine!

 

[NPye]

23 minutes ago, Lucky_Strike said:

Do you think you can clip me a section of your latest map where you have the Brandenburg Gate so I can get the scale of it right to fit into your map. I'm considering making the model ready ruined, or at least roofless, as that'll probably be easier than trying to add all the extra textures for intact and ruined. Don't really know yet will have to see what I can do re the middle section.

Here's my Gate effort. 

[Lucky_Strike]

44 minutes ago, NPye said:

Here's my Gate effort. 

That's a big improvement on the original BF version.

Looking at the available independent buildings there are quite a few that I can't use as they are angled at 45 degrees 

The biggest barns are all angled, so that leaves me with less obvious choices.

You said that you're not using "the Windmill and the Big Barns, or any of the shops and houses ..." Does this still stand?

I've played around with the footprint of the gate as it stands on your map, and I might have a solution to the buildings on either side of the central arches. I'm thinking that simple modular or indi buildings surrounded by columns from the monuments flavour objects would give a pretty convincing colonnaded structure whilst the guard houses were pretty wrecked anyway. I can make several different wrecked column monuments that you can arrange around the houses ...

... obviously doing a better job than me.

The buildings inside the colonnaded areas at the back (Tiergarten side) are completely raised to the ground just for rubble from the smashed roofs. The guard rooms are roofless. The columns can be placed quite neatly around the buildings and even inside if wished. If we have several heights of columns in varying states of destruction I think we are half way there. 

The central section could then be one very large flavor object placed over rows of columns, or similar, invisible flavor objects which work well for obstructing traffic, the only issue would be LOS through the central structure. One possible way around this might be to have the windmill made invisible, one either side of the central road. These would certainly restrict LOS but I'm not sure about how to limit access to them other than by using ground tiles. Otherwise there is the bridge if I can figure out how to mod that.

 

[RockinHarry]

5 hours ago, Lucky_Strike said:

I do wonder if BF do this on purpose just to annoy us! I also gotta question if they've ever been to Europe? Perhaps they came to the UK where we're fond of a bit of mock tudor ... 

When looking at Aachen and Berlin maps I tend to believe...rather not. For Aachen I´ll likely create my own thing from scratch (for particular battle and smaller area) And Berlin.... no need making a guess about that. Generally the mod building roof type system is not worked out well IMO. Instead of adding the mostly useless Tudor mockery, they rather should´ve added roof types unique to CMBN MG and flat type roofs included with modern titles. But I paid 60 for CMFB and 95$ for CMRT plus FR and still got to try mod include needed stuff myself. WTF? Sometimes it would be good if they do bits of listen to their customers and not just to inhouse team. But who knows. Maybe any their feedback falls on deaf ears as well.

6 hours ago, Lucky_Strike said:

20 hours ago, RockinHarry said:

just looking at them in Blender makes me headaches already.

Makes me  I quite often end up nodding off in front of a tree model.

lol ...well okay... alternative version then.

[RockinHarry]

3 hours ago, Lucky_Strike said:

That's a big improvement on the original BF version.

Looking at the available independent buildings there are quite a few that I can't use as they are angled at 45 degrees 

The biggest barns are all angled, so that leaves me with less obvious choices.

You said that you're not using "the Windmill and the Big Barns, or any of the shops and houses ..." Does this still stand?

I've played around with the footprint of the gate as it stands on your map, and I might have a solution to the buildings on either side of the central arches. I'm thinking that simple modular or indi buildings surrounded by columns from the monuments flavour objects would give a pretty convincing colonnaded structure whilst the guard houses were pretty wrecked anyway. I can make several different wrecked column monuments that you can arrange around the houses ...

... obviously doing a better job than me.

The buildings inside the colonnaded areas at the back (Tiergarten side) are completely raised to the ground just for rubble from the smashed roofs. The guard rooms are roofless. The columns can be placed quite neatly around the buildings and even inside if wished. If we have several heights of columns in varying states of destruction I think we are half way there. 

The central section could then be one very large flavor object placed over rows of columns, or similar, invisible flavor objects which work well for obstructing traffic, the only issue would be LOS through the central structure. One possible way around this might be to have the windmill made invisible, one either side of the central road. These would certainly restrict LOS but I'm not sure about how to limit access to them other than by using ground tiles. Otherwise there is the bridge if I can figure out how to mod that.

 

One thing coming to mind could possibly be the mod building + bridge placement idea outlined here first time. Pity the screens ain´t available anymore. Food for thought maybe.

 

Edited November 19, 2022 by RockinHarry

[RockinHarry]

@NPye and @Lucky_Strike did you had a look at latest CMRT 2.12 patch content yet? I see lots of added and updated content in there likely relevant for running CMRT modding efforts. Just in case. I´m just browsing through unpacked BRZ files and make me an overview.

[Lucky_Strike]

1 hour ago, RockinHarry said:

run out of likes again. One thing coming to mind could possibly be the mod building + bridge placement idea outlined here first time. Pity the screens ain´t available anymore. Food for thought maybe.

Yeah I had a play around with using a bridge. It's quite useful for blocking LOS and traffic movement through the arches, but it's rather limited when it comes to skinning it and I couldn't really get it tall enough without some serious terrain upheaval interfering with the surrounding buildings and colonnade. I might have another look at ways to partially block LOS, perhaps with a hidden single level building on each side of the central arch, though might only need to be a rubble building at that. This would also offer some cover to pixeltruppen hiding in the arches as well as allow them passage whilst vehicles could still pass through the central archway.

Main thing is I think it's doable and will mostly function quite well.

4 minutes ago, RockinHarry said:

@NPye and @Lucky_Strike did you had a look at latest CMRT 2.12 patch content yet? I see lots of added and updated content in there likely relevant for running CMRT modding efforts. Just in case. I´m just browsing through unpacked BRZ files and make me an overview.

Haven't seen it yet as it's not out for MacOS yet - some problems with the delivery mechanism or something like that. Nigel is exclusively MacOS so he won't have it yet. I may grab the Windows version and install it on my PC just to peek in the files. But I thought there weren't that many things in the patch. The list of bug fixes was pretty short. You'll have to let us know what you find Harry.

[Lucky_Strike]

1 hour ago, RockinHarry said:

When looking at Aachen and Berlin maps I tend to believe...rather not. For Aachen I´ll likely create my own thing from scratch (for particular battle and smaller area) And Berlin.... no need making a guess about that. Generally the mod building roof type system is not worked out well IMO. Instead of adding the mostly useless Tudor mockery, they rather should´ve added roof types unique to CMBN MG and flat type roofs included with modern titles.

Yeah, it makes no sense. One flat roof for the whole of the Eastern front is just lazy IMHO, especially as they already existed in CMFS2.

1 hour ago, RockinHarry said:

But I paid 60 for CMFB and 95$ for CMRT plus FR and still got to try mod include needed stuff myself. WTF? Sometimes it would be good if they do bits of listen to their customers and not just to inhouse team. But who knows. Maybe any their feedback falls on deaf ears as well.

There never seems to be any customer feedback survey or mechanism. I know it's been said on here before that BF look into all the bugs and stuff reported on the forums, but feedback should work two ways, it's all very well saying we're listening and we'll fix these issues as we see fit, but there's scant proof that the system actually works that well. It's more a case of just enough to get by. I appreciate they're a small team but with the extra exposure they are getting from Steam they are likely to get a lot more criticism and pressure than what they've experienced in the past and their usual advocates will be on increasingly shakey ground. But then again if the pro military contracts pay well and they don't demand the same kind of attention as the consumer side where's the incentive?

[RockinHarry]

38 minutes ago, Lucky_Strike said:

Haven't seen it yet as it's not out for MacOS yet - some problems with the delivery mechanism or something like that. Nigel is exclusively MacOS so he won't have it yet. I may grab the Windows version and install it on my PC just to peek in the files. But I thought there weren't that many things in the patch. The list of bug fixes was pretty short. You'll have to let us know what you find Harry.

ah okay. I´d recommend to have a look in there yourself. Patch is 3GB (unpacked = 10.5 GB) and amount of new or changed content is massive accordingly! I´d just deactivated about 90% of my installed mod files so I get an overview of what got changed and added actually. So I´d advise making a full stop on modding til it´s cleared how much of the stuff affects our running individual mod works.

[Artkin]

7 hours ago, NPye said:

Here's my Gate effort. 

Dude, magnifico!!!

Was the gate blocked with rubble historically? You may need some excuse why vehicles can't pass through

[NPye]

1 hour ago, Artkin said:

Dude, magnifico!!!

Was the gate blocked with rubble historically? You may need some excuse why vehicles can't pass through

Yep you are correct, working on it. Cheers

Edited November 19, 2022 by NPye

[NPye]

57 minutes ago, Lucky_Strike said:

Haven't seen it yet as it's not out for MacOS yet - some problems with the delivery mechanism or something like that. Nigel is exclusively MacOS so he won't have it yet. I may grab the Windows version and install it on my PC just to peek in the files. But I thought there weren't that many things in the patch. The list of bug fixes was pretty short. You'll have to let us know what you find Harry.

They sent me a PC download????? No good.

[NPye]

59 minutes ago, Lucky_Strike said:

Yeah I had a play around with using a bridge. It's quite useful for blocking LOS and traffic movement through the arches, but it's rather limited when it comes to skinning it and I couldn't really get it tall enough without some serious terrain upheaval interfering with the surrounding buildings and colonnade. I might have another look at ways to partially block LOS, perhaps with a hidden single level building on each side of the central arch, though might only need to be a rubble building at that. This would also offer some cover to pixeltruppen hiding in the arches as well as allow them passage whilst vehicles could still pass through the central archway.

 

Thats how ive made the Gate bud Bridge with Mod build over it.... Its ok but far inferior to the gate you posted... Is that not possible to use in game bud?????

[Lucky_Strike]

7 hours ago, NPye said:

Here's my Gate effort. 

Actually Nigel, looking at some of the photos of the gate around the end of the battle, it's quite clear that the archways were barricaded. The best photo I found so far is quite graphic so apologies for that ...

The three central arches are blocked by what looks like substantial back-filled rubble  behind sandbag or log? walls like we've seen elsewhere. Whilst the side pedestrian? archways are blocked with lower barricades, possibly combat positions? Looking at it from the opposite side it's clear that there were two or three tram or freight carriages used to further reinforce the central barricade ... 

... 2 May 1945, and this ...

... apparently from 1 Jan 1945, though could be later. In the last image it's possible to just make out some people who are standing on the barricade in the central arch just beyond the freight carriage.

So my question - would you like to go for barricaded and have the possible of a combat position?

Modelling the barricades would likely entail some hacked buildings, which could be placed in the arches minus their roofs. Your tram and rail carriages/box cars would make a great addition with a burning wreck or two ...

 

[Lucky_Strike]

6 minutes ago, NPye said:

Thats how ive made the Gate bud Bridge with Mod build over it.... Its ok but far inferior to the gate you posted... Is that not possible to use in game bud?????

Yeah we can get it in game, I already have but need to rescale it some more to fit the space better. I'm looking at the best way to 1. Wreck it some to look a bit more like the photos; 2. Make it work, that is not just be a flavor object.

At the moment I'm thinking part real buildings part flavor objects.

[NPye]

29 minutes ago, Lucky_Strike said:

Yeah we can get it in game, I already have but need to rescale it some more to fit the space better. I'm looking at the best way to 1. Wreck it some to look a bit more like the photos; 2. Make it work, that is not just be a flavor object.

At the moment I'm thinking part real buildings part flavor objects.

Awesome will transform this map, cheers Mark

[NPye]

49 minutes ago, Lucky_Strike said:

... apparently from 1 Jan 1945, though could be later. In the last image it's possible to just make out some people who are standing on the barricade in the central arch just beyond the freight carriage.

 

One have to be very careful with after war soviet photos, they may have made the barricades themselves to give the impression that it must have been harder battle than it actually was. There are picture of Stalingrad where the are plenty of defences and AA guns etc. but some clever fellow proved they were fake because the buildings where smashed but on the date given for the photo the buildings were still upright and not destroyed. the Soviets done this to show they would never leave a city unprotected???? I think barricade some but leave at least one free could be good????

 

Ok I was wrong. lol There were barricades as the shots show. Cheers

Edited November 19, 2022 by NPye

[NPye]

Just found this gem, Hermann Goering Strasse, look at the ground textures, the roads aren't really roads anymore a mixture of mud and muck with parts of cobblestone etc... You can see the ate in the background and are these IS I's or II's either way an awesome shot of a street not very well photographed. Cheers

[RockinHarry]

2 hours ago, NPye said:

One have to be very careful with after war soviet photos, they may have made the barricades themselves to give the impression that it must have been harder battle than it actually was. There are picture of Stalingrad where the are plenty of defences and AA guns etc. but some clever fellow proved they were fake because the buildings where smashed but on the date given for the photo the buildings were still upright and not destroyed. the Soviets done this to show they would never leave a city unprotected???? I think barricade some but leave at least one free could be good????

 

Ok I was wrong. lol There were barricades as the shots show. Cheers

yep, that was bits of far fetched. The barricades look like those in my manuals and germans had enough time and material to erect these according to the books.

2 hours ago, NPye said:

Just found this gem, Hermann Goering Strasse, look at the ground textures, the roads aren't really roads anymore a mixture of mud and muck with parts of cobblestone etc... You can see the ate in the background and are these IS I's or II's either way an awesome shot of a street not very well photographed. Cheers

Nice one. I´d just add a few craters here and there, make the hard roads look more dirty/muddy and the rest is FO placements. Re FO might be good idea to add more than just wall and stone debris. As can be seen in pic there´s plenty of civilian stuff remains in the ruins and on the sreets. Furniture, papers, maybe a lone toilet pan up some the ruined buildings levels. Hehe 

This mod still gives the general idea IMO.

https://www.thefewgoodmen.com/cm-mod-warehouse/combat-mission-shock-force-2/cmsf2-scenery/cmsf2-street-scene-rubbish-brown-stream-amended-rubble-and-rural-wall-and-wooden-48m-bridge/

[Lucky_Strike]

Just afore I retire .... dawn creeps across Berlin ...

... or maybe we prefer a burning wreck to illuminate her ...

All one texture at the moment - I hate UVs.

Anyway At least it's possible to see this is why we need her!

[NPye]

1 hour ago, Lucky_Strike said:

Just afore I retire .... dawn creeps across Berlin ...

... or maybe we prefer a burning wreck to illuminate her ...

All one texture at the moment - I hate UVs.

Anyway At least it's possible to see this is why we need her!

Sorry bud you aint retiring anywhere...lol ****ing fantastic dude....Wow wow and wow

[NPye]

I can't wait to replace the gate but here's my latest...

[NPye]

A quick walk up the Unter den Linden.