Bridge Elevations

[Canuck21]

Ok, I'm stuck. Officially  . I did do a search for this term as I'm probably becoming a PITA with all my questions, but didn't come up with anything. So, I have a railway bridge spanning a river. I finally got it to where the train occupants aren't in danger of drowning when they cross it, but there is a discrepancy of a metre or so between the rails on the bridge (lower) and the rails on the banks (higher). Now what I've done is set the elevations (this is a diagonal crossing - making it straight across would have been far too easy ) of the squares containing the bridge to 30 while all the other elevations around it are at the default 20 (early on in the map making, and I confirmed the surrounding elevations by manually setting 20 around the 30's). I've tried setting the bridge square elevations higher, but that's not having any effect it seems. I tried lowering the surrounding elevations but that too isn't having the desired effect. So I'm kind of buffaloed as to how to set elevations when it comes to rivers and crossings and even banks.

Another related issue is I've wanted to produce some very shallow "swampy" land at the edges of a river, but again, I'm having elevation issues. In these cases there are significant banks along the edge of the river; not huge, but not inundated land either, which is what I'm trying to achieve via very low banks (if any) and using weeds and marsh around it. 

So, as you can see, I'm having elevation issues when it comes to water. I know there's got to be some tutorials somewhere but I've not found them yet. If anyone can clue me in, that would be really great. Many thanks!

[benpark]

Be sure you have the two tiles alongside the tile with the bridge entrance set at the same height. Also double check that they are the same on the other side. Diagonals can be tricky, but just imagine a straight line through the three tiles (bridge and two adjacent).

If you post a screenshot with the Elevations switched "on", that may better help decipher what may be happening.

[Canuck21]

Thanks for this Ben. I just came back on to say that I may have figured it out. I found a short section in "The Sheriff of Oosterbeek" about how Jon laid out the bridge ends. In there I saw that the water tiles are at whatever the lowest point on the map is, and that triggered all kinds of clues. I think what I'm seeing is "normal" in terms of the slight drop from the "terrestrial" tracks and the bridge tracks. I'm thinking that's just the difference in tiles and not an elevation issue. The more I've played around with it, the clearer it's become, knowing where the water table is now. I was trying to change the bridge elevation via a direct elevation adjustment to the actual bridge tiles, but of course that does squat. I found by sticking a "swampy" area elsewhere with a lower elevation value than the river is displayed at, then I can start getting some air under the bridge rather than having it sit in the water even though it's at the same level either side. I'm not sure if I explained it very well, but for now I think I have this solved. If I'm stuck further on, I'll repost with shots to illustrate my problem. Oh, in terms of the swamps and inundated land, I found that if I put in mud banks then there is a much shallower entry into the water (read that on the forum here somewhere in one of my searches). I still need to play with that a bit more, but that too is coming along.

Thanks Ben. I may be back shortly with further info.

[Canuck21]

I think I've got it Ben. Everything seems to be working out as I've put in 2 other bridges and they went in fine. The trick that I was missing was realizing that the water levels go to the lowest elevation on the entire map, so that's what had me guessing. With that knowledge, things seem to be going a lot smoother. Thanks again for the help  .

[Combatintman]

7 hours ago, Canuck21 said:

I think I've got it Ben. Everything seems to be working out as I've put in 2 other bridges and they went in fine. The trick that I was missing was realizing that the water levels go to the lowest elevation on the entire map, so that's what had me guessing. With that knowledge, things seem to be going a lot smoother. Thanks again for the help  .

Yeah, excepting the bridge issue, the fact that water goes to the level on which you first paint a water tile is a bit of a limitation as you can't have rivers flowing downhill.  This means that you sometimes have to use stream tiles on high ground or accept that your rivers will flow through deep gorges or compromise on your elevations.

[Canuck21]

Ok, from what you are saying @Combatintman, then I don't quite have it right. If I paint a river in first using the default elevation of 20, then paint in a marsh or depression (dry land) later on at 15 let's say, the river will stay at 20 then? When I tried that, it looked like the river dropped down lower, but maybe there's something else at play here?

[Combatintman]

4 minutes ago, Canuck21 said:

Ok, from what you are saying @Combatintman, then I don't quite have it right. If I paint a river in first using the default elevation of 20, then paint in a marsh or depression (dry land) later on at 15 let's say, the river will stay at 20 then? When I tried that, it looked like the river dropped down lower, but maybe there's something else at play here?

No you have it right - it will default to the lowest tile elevation setting you paint water on.

[37mm]

7 minutes ago, Canuck21 said:

Ok, from what you are saying @Combatintman, then I don't quite have it right. If I paint a river in first using the default elevation of 20, then paint in a marsh or depression (dry land) later on at 15 let's say, the river will stay at 20 then? When I tried that, it looked like the river dropped down lower, but maybe there's something else at play here?

There is a "flooding effect" when water tiles interact with marsh & mud tiles, I've been using this feature (at first I thought it was a bug) in H&E a lot... but I'm not too sure how extensive the flooding can get.

[ASL Veteran]

Just for clarification - the elevation that water will go to will be equal to the lowest elevation tile that touches a water tile (ie adjacent to one so you don't even need to set elevations in the water tiles themselves), not the lowest elevation on the map in general.  This allows you to massage your map to some extent because you can alter your elevations without consequence so long as they aren't touching the water tile and you can manipulate how your shoreline looks by keeping the tiles next to the water within a few meters above the water (so put a tile 3 meters above the water level next to the water and then put something 20 meters above the water level next to that tile so it's not directly next to the water.  You can also put dykes and levees like in Holland and even have the water level higher than the surrounding terrain so long as your levee tiles are consistent.

Edited April 28, 2021 by ASL Veteran
typing with the left pinky taped to the adjacent finger is hard to do

[Canuck21]

2 hours ago, 37mm said:

There is a "flooding effect" when water tiles interact with marsh & mud tiles, I've been using this feature (at first I thought it was a bug) in H&E a lot... but I'm not too sure how extensive the flooding can get.

Ahh, very good. I've been using that a bit in a map I'm making now, but it's still a bit fuzzy in my head. It's getting there though.

2 hours ago, ASL Veteran said:

Just for clarification - the elevation that water will go to will be equal to the lowest elevation tile that touches a water tile (ie adjacent to one so you don't even need to set elevations in the water tiles themselves), not the lowest elevation on the map in general.  This allows you to massage your map to some extent because you can alter your elevations without consequence so long as they aren't touching the water tile and you can manipulate how your shoreline looks by keeping the tiles next to the water within a few meters above the water (so put a tile 3 meters above the water level next to the water and then put something 20 meters above the water level next to that tile so it's not directly next to the water.  You can also put dykes and levees like in Holland and even have the water level higher than the surrounding terrain so long as your levee tiles are consistent.

Ok, now THAT makes sense to me! I get it now. I was worried as I had made a depression in the ground that was well away from the river, but was afraid the river level would be affected. I see now that's not the case. 

Thanks people. Appreciate this.