Bradleys in ‘82?

[Sgt.Squarehead]

 

@The_Capt  I hate to mention it, but:

It seems like you guys are forgetting just how many fun toys the Soviets actually had. 

[The_Capt]

13 minutes ago, Sgt.Squarehead said:

 

@The_Capt  I hate to mention it, but:

It seems like you guys are forgetting just how many fun toys the Soviets actually had. 

Heh, trust me, having read FM 100 2-3 front to back, I am pretty sure we didn't "forget" anything.  Yep, that is a bad beast (100 kilo warhead), but it is an Army asset, right along side the Frog 7.  Like NBCD, in-game for CM this would be something the player would experience, not command.  The only tactical exception may be SOF but that is also not in the game.  

One of the biggest challenges (and learning curves) in game design is managing scope and scale.  Because we are really enthusiastic, scope and scale can and will explode very quickly.  Then you either have to tamp it down, make hard decisions or look at another 1-2 years of development time.  There is a point where all of this start to become unrealistic as you are basically trying to stuff strategic assets into a 4 x 4 km map with tactical units, just because they are modeled.

[Sgt.Squarehead]

"Until the introduction of the larger 300 mm BM 9A52 (12-round) Smerch system, the 220 mm BM 9P140 (40-round) was normally deployed in rocket artillery regiment and brigade formations at Army or Front (Military District) level.

In the case of the former, the regiment Table of Organisation and Equipment (TOE) normally comprises three battalions of 12 launchers, which is normally increased to 18 launchers in time of war.

In a Military District, an independent Uragan rocket artillery regiment has the same TOE. But if the Uragan unit is assigned to an artillery division within the Military District, then the unit may be either a regiment or brigade with four battalions each with 12 launchers (which would be increased to 18 in time of war). If the unit were already a brigade then it would take on the extra six launchers per battalion to achieve its wartime TOE.

Typical roles of the Uragan system would be to suppress enemy missile, artillery and mortar batteries as well as destroying strong points and other areas of resistance. It would normally use 'shoot and scoot' techniques to avoid counter battery fire."

Quick check and my whinge is withdrawn.....As you say enthusiasm got the better of me there (a new 1/72 kit of this monster is on the horizon). 

1 minute ago, The_Capt said:

One of the biggest challenges (and learning curves) in game design is managing scope and scale.  Because we are really enthusiastic, scope and scale can and will explode very quickly.

Wise words.....Appreciated. 

 

[A Canadian Cat]

4 hours ago, The_Capt said:

You will not be seeing M1s rolling across the plains in 1979

It should be noted that with the editor you can still do this if you really really want. Set the date to post introduction of <insert dream equipment here> select forces that use it and get them all happy in your scenario then set the date back to <insert date way to early for dream equipment here> and wallah you have M1s rolling across the plans in 1979. Just as an example.

[akd]

13 hours ago, IICptMillerII said:

In CMCW the Bradley comes in its own TO&E formation, and the dismounts are the 6 man teams they were in reality. The player doesn't have to do any annoying splitting or cross loading, all of that is taken care of by the TO&E. 

Thanks.  Sent me off to do some reading, as I did not realize other orgs were tried before they arrived at the cross-loading nightmare of 3x 9-man squads.  So I assume the org is that from 1986 FM 7-7J?  I don't see the M-249 SAW in the list of weapons, so will it be 1x M-60 per dismount team?  To maintain 3x crew per Brad, I assume the Platoon Leader dismounts with his Ratelo and the Platoon Sergeant stays mounted to command one of the Brads, with Asst. Squad Leaders commanding the other 3 Brads?

Will be interesting to try out this earlier org.

[Sgt.Squarehead]

Hold on.....Didn't someone suggest this would be unhistorical when I suggested pretty much exactly the same thing for BMPs? 

14 hours ago, akd said:

Then you won’t have a dismounted platoon per doctrine.

Yes.....Yes they did.  

 

Edited February 18, 2021 by Sgt.Squarehead

[akd]

11 minutes ago, Sgt.Squarehead said:

Hold on.....Didn't someone suggest this would be unhistorical when I suggested pretty much exactly the same thing for BMPs? 

Yes.....Yes they did.  

 

That is straight out of the doctrine in FM 7-7J for a hasty dismount, not an improvised org, and would have required training all of the leaders in the unit on the Bradley systems.  Soviet doctrine (as I understand it) was for full squads to dismount along with Platoon Leader, leaving Deputy Platoon Leader in one of the BMPs, so 1x BMP with 3x crew and 2x BMP with 2x crew.

Edited February 18, 2021 by akd

[Sgt.Squarehead]

That's not what you said here:

14 hours ago, akd said:

Are you sure it was that simple?  Seems that only one squad leader was also a vehicle commander, the other two vehicles being commanded by the Platoon Leader and the Deputy Platoon Leader (Senior Sergeant).

  

  

 

[akd]

30 minutes ago, Sgt.Squarehead said:

That's not what you said here:

  

  

 

1x BMP-2 squad leader was also a vehicle commander, the other two BMPs being commanded by the Platoon Leader and Deputy Platoon Leader.  When the platoon dismounted, the squad leader and the platoon leader would also dismount, leaving two BMPs without commanders (the gunners in these BMPs would assume the commander position) and the Deputy Platoon Leader in charge of the vehicle element .

Quote

Each Motorized Rifle Squad consisted of 6 dismounts and 2 vehicle crewmen. The Vehicle Gunner and Mechanic-Driver were attached to the rifle platoons from the Battalion-level and did not dismount. In the vehicle without the Platoon Commander or Deputy Platoon Commander, the Squad Commander sat in the vehicle commander seat in the turret and directed the crew. However, the Squad Commander would dismount with the rest of his squad. At this point, the Vehicle Gunner sitting in the turret would take command of the vehicle.

https://www.battleorder.org/ussr-bmp-1980s

Edited February 18, 2021 by akd

[Sgt.Squarehead]

OK, got you.....I misunderstood your post in the other thread, assuming the various leaders would mount up and command all three BMPs while the remainder of the platoon fought dismounted. 

[IronCat60]

To answer AKD's  question

This first, to help you understand how a a Bradley Mechanized Infantry Platoon vehicles are organized. There are four vehicles. There is a "hull number" consisting of a letter designation and two digits assigned to each vehicle.

Letter indicates which Company it is assigned to; A-Alpha Company, B-Bravo Company, C-Charlie Company. 

First number indicates Platoon; 1-1st , 2-2nd, 3-3rd.  Second number indicates vehicle assignment within the platoon; 1, 2, 3, 4.

Vehicles are further assigned to either Section A or B.

For example:

A Company, 3rd Platoon

Section A

A31 Platoon Leader BFV - Platoon Lead Vehicle when Plt Ldr is mounted, A Section Wingman when Plt Ldr is dismounted

TC: 2Lt (mounted), Sgt (TC trained and in control when 2Lt is dismounted)

 

A32 Platoon Master Gunner BFV - A Section Wingman to 31 when Plt Ldr is mounted, A Section Lead when Plt Ldr is dismounted

TC: Platoon Bradley Master Gunner (mounted at all times)

 

Section B

A34 Platoon Sergeant -  B Section Lead when Plt Ldr is mounted,  Lead Vehicle of Platoon Vehicle Element (all four BFV's) when Plt Ldr is dismounted.

TC: Platoon Sergeant (mounted at all times)

 

A33 Section Sergeant - B Section Wingman to 34

TC: Staff Sergeant (TC trained, mounted at all times)