On-map arty problems

[John1966]

I'm getting a bit confused with some of this, probably as I've been doing a fair few Market Garden scenarios of late (and those paras rely on more on-map arty).

1) Wasn't going to bother asking about this but (since I'm here), I seem to get a lot of times when mortars simply won't fire when FOs have called them in. Mission looks OK, two green lines, and it gets as far as "spotting". But the mortars never fire. It just stays like that.

As it's MG, sometimes those mortars are in Dutch gardens and I wondered if that's the problem. Maybe they're too close to the houses and can't get the angle.

I've had some success in moving the mortars to alleviate the problem. But that's not always an option in the machine gun-raked street of Arnhem.

2) Now this is the real puzzler. Playing with some pack howitzers last night and when they start firing, they don't seem to be doing indirect fire as I understand it. It seems to be some low angled thing that's closer to direct fire. Most of it is hitting intervening trees and buildings and in one case the only rounds getting through were to a spot that they actually had a LOF to. They could have done that without a FO.

I think that might be the first time I've used on-map arty fire missions that weren't just mortars.

Am I doing something wrong? It occurred to me they were too close but the low angles they were firing out didn't suggest that and you'd assume I'd not be able to set up the fire mission.

Is there an art to these?

 

[akd]

1. Yes, your mortars are likely having their LoF block by nearby obstacles.

 

2. re: pack howitzers, BFC has not implemented variable charges for these weapons, so they are always firing using a full charge (which is best for direct fire).

[John1966]

20 hours ago, akd said:

1. Yes, your mortars are likely having their LoF block by nearby obstacles.

 

Seems reasonable. Just surprised that scenario designers had put put them in default positions that were actually bad places to put mortars.

I could of course move them in the set-up but it's interesting that from what I've read about Market Garden (and photographs I've seen), the gardens of Dutch houses were actually where they got placed.

We've all seen this fella. Maybe CM doesn't lend itself to close quarters quite so well.

 

20 hours ago, akd said:

2. re: pack howitzers, BFC has not implemented variable charges for these weapons, so they are always firing using a full charge (which is best for direct fire).

That's disappointing as indirect fire would seem their primary purpose. Certainly in the context of MG where they were pretty much the main non-mortar artillery support that was available.

Their presence was also mis-sold in the briefing. Got the distinct impression that was what they (and the two FOs) were there for.

 

[Glubokii Boy]

21 hours ago, John1966 said:

Maybe they're too close to the houses and can't get the angle.

You were correct with your assesment here...

If the guy in the picture were to lower the elevation of his mortar and aim it more to the left i doubt it would be all that great...

Direction of fire maters in CM to IIRC...I bet you will be able to fire the mortar from its current possition just fine if you aim it away from the buildingwall...no point in that though i guess ...

[mjkerner]

After first expecting (read it in the manual) and then encountering terrain-blocked on-map mortars in the early days of the CMx2 franchise (mainly Normandy), I have rarely encountered it since, and that's across across all the games and modules.  In fact, I can't remember the last time I was blocked, even when I set them up in light tree areas and on the edge of woods, etc.  I thought maybe BFC tweaked it.  You seem to have been very unlucky, John!

 

[Warts 'n' all]

4 hours ago, John1966 said:

... the gardens of Dutch houses were actually where they got placed.

We've all seen this fella. Maybe CM doesn't lend itself to close quarters quite so well.

 

I think you'll find that these guys weren't in the garden of a house, they were on the edge of a wood.

Edited October 27, 2020 by Warts 'n' all

[akd]

2 hours ago, mjkerner said:

After first expecting (read it in the manual) and then encountering terrain-blocked on-map mortars in the early days of the CMx2 franchise (mainly Normandy), I have rarely encountered it since, and that's across across all the games and modules.  In fact, I can't remember the last time I was blocked, even when I set them up in light tree areas and on the edge of woods, etc.  I thought maybe BFC tweaked it.  You seem to have been very unlucky, John!

 

Trees won't block them. Only terrain (unlikely with mortars) and structures, I believe.

[John1966]

3 hours ago, Warts 'n' all said:

I think you'll find that these guys weren't in the garden of a house, they were on the edge of a wood.

Well possibly not (I've actually no idea). But many slit trenches and foxholes were dug in gardens. So it's not a totally unreasonable place to find one.

I just thought it'd be nice to add a picture. 

Gardens are definitely the default locations for mortars in a few MG scenarios.

(Often gardens with those high wall I don't think Dutch gardens have)

Edited October 27, 2020 by John1966

[Warts 'n' all]

You're right that slit trenches and fox holes were dug in gardens during the battle. Just unlucky with your choice of picture. Thankfully the location of that mortar pit has never been built on. ...