Bunkers

[Howler]

MG Out on a Limb (WEGO - Iron)

Not sure what to expect, I managed to maneuver a US squad behind the bunker closest to the Allied setup. Figured two teams would area fire as the third team would get closer to use a demo. Was surprised to see the defenders bail only to have all, but one, fall before the demo team had a chance to approach. It was over fast and left me feeling a little over prepared. The bunker shows as being Knocked Out and it only cost some small arms fire and a few grenades.

Can I assume this is working as intended? Searching the subject here reveals an evolution from impossible (to eliminate) to now being the equivalent of a 1-storey structure (perhaps too easy for some).

This could very well be a case of 'first time lucky' and not at all attributed to changes in 4.01... just asking. 

[General Liederkranz]

In my experience (mostly under 4.0 though), grenades will kill a wooden bunker, but it’s variable. Sometimes a squad will exhaust its entire supply with no effect, other times it’s easy. 

I’m currently playing CMFI “Ramparts of the Palikoi” under 4.1 and the bunkers don’t seem too vulnerable to small arms. One did show up as knocked out after several 81mm mortar rounds and a metric ton of .30 cal hit it. Others survived all that just fine  

What does seem weird is suppression. It’s not clear to me that suppressed bunker occupants actually fire any less than unsuppressed ones (and of course they never cower or pin). It’s also unpredictable what suppresses them. Sometimes mortar hits do but not usually. MG fire that scores penetrations on the firing slit doesn’t seem to. Only actual casualties reliably cause suppression. I don’t think any of this is new since 4.1 but it is just confusing.

 

[Wicky]

Replaying through Out on a Limb I did notice the wooden bunker seemed easier to take out than previously where it took a while. Maybe it has been tweaked

[A Canadian Cat]

10 hours ago, Howler said:

It was over fast and left me feeling a little over prepared.

It is always good to be over prepared. That is how it should be done.

[rocketman]

14 hours ago, General Liederkranz said:

In my experience (mostly under 4.0 though), grenades will kill a wooden bunker, but it’s variable. Sometimes a squad will exhaust its entire supply with no effect, other times it’s easy. 

I’m currently playing CMFI “Ramparts of the Palikoi” under 4.1 and the bunkers don’t seem too vulnerable to small arms. One did show up as knocked out after several 81mm mortar rounds and a metric ton of .30 cal hit it. Others survived all that just fine  

What does seem weird is suppression. It’s not clear to me that suppressed bunker occupants actually fire any less than unsuppressed ones (and of course they never cower or pin). It’s also unpredictable what suppresses them. Sometimes mortar hits do but not usually. MG fire that scores penetrations on the firing slit doesn’t seem to. Only actual casualties reliably cause suppression. I don’t think any of this is new since 4.1 but it is just confusing.

 

Haven't played against bunkers after new patch. Crews inside bunkers never cower, even though their suppression meter is at max. I have had such crews fire back quite accurately. Not sure though if they return fire less frequently if suppressed. Not cowering is a drawback of the current way bunkers are modelled.

[General Liederkranz]

1 minute ago, rocketman said:

Not cowering is a drawback of the current way bunkers are modelled.

Yeah, I wish they could cower down inside. And if they're my bunkers sometimes I wish I could MAKE them do that by Hiding, when there's a lot of small arms fire coming into the firing slit.

[RockinHarry]

haven´t yet come to test play the new patch though I´d likely be the best candidate to test and report on it. Had this siegfried line mission created with bunkers and various opportunities to deal with them. Last I found they´re very vulnerable to mortar and Arty.  also from near misses. This annoyed me like f..k and more or less abandoned a whole series of follow up mission that I was about to prepare. Surely, crews can´t cower as bunkers are treated like any other vehicle type units. Though wonder they can´t "button up" like them also! At least the more deliberately built concrete pillboxes had armored apertures that could be usually closed at will. I fear it´ll take CM V5 engine to get something that works similar to the real things. But until then I´ll rather avoid them. It´s a pity. Buuut....yet got to test play the new patch as well to get a current impression.

[Howler]

My approach was from the back with the teams never taking fire from the bunker. The biggest challenge was shrinking the TAs to minimize the risk of early fire as they neared. Once in position, the squad (3 teams) started shooting and tossing grenades. I was surprised by how quickly the defenders decided to decamp. The lone survivor surrendered the next turn.

It was over in under 30s. I'm not implying that there's anything wrong with the patch. I was just curious as it went exceedingly well for a first encounter with a bunker under 4.01.

[RockinHarry]

6 minutes ago, Howler said:

My approach was from the back with the teams never taking fire from the bunker. The biggest challenge was shrinking the TAs to minimize the risk of early fire as they neared. Once in position, the squad (3 teams) started shooting and tossing grenades. I was surprised by how quickly the defenders decided to decamp. The lone survivor surrendered the next turn.

It was over in under 30s. I'm not implying that there's anything wrong with the patch. I was just curious as it went exceedingly well for a first encounter with a bunker under 4.01.

it sounds a bit like that partiular PB got some damages before and it was now the time for internal damage meter (which is invisble to the player) to go full tilt and let the crew bail. Sometimes I had the feel that the game engine sort of "anticipates" a PB´s final destruction and let the crew bail prematurely so to say. Plain crew morale/suppression reasons from my experiences NEVER lets a crew bail. But got to test the new patch for any possbile changes I might not know about ATM.

[user1000]

BUG 4.1 CMBN pak38 bunker labeled "4 pak38" door cannot be breached with stuart or m8 scott and 50cal multiple hits, they are not even suppressed. Pak40 bunker door is easily breached by stuart.

Edited June 1, 2019 by user1000