Dynaman216 Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 Even if you CAN see, nine times out of ten your shot will hit the tree 3 feet in front of you tank while return fire never does. You would think the gunner would notice that tree right in front of him and not hit it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sid_burn Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 10 hours ago, Bulletpoint said: I think it should be possible to eyeball a situation and get a pretty good result. With the pine trees, I'm forced to slowly probe around for LOS using the target tool. Not very fun, and despite what some might think, I actually do play these games for fun 7 minutes ago, Rinaldi said: It already is. Have to agree with Rinaldi here. In my experience you can usually get a good idea of visibility just by eyeballing the terrain. It is also helpful if you feed your men carrots beforehand 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletpoint Posted February 5, 2019 Author Share Posted February 5, 2019 9 hours ago, Rinaldi said: It already is. For most things, apart from the pines, yes. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holoween Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 2 hours ago, Bulletpoint said: For most things, apart from the pines, yes. all trees id show you a screenshot but its from a HvH game that is still running and gives away too much information but as soon as its finished ill post it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockinHarry Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 (edited) I generally feel with Bulletpoint concerning the pine trees. Currently we can only "improve" by use of adding bocage and bushes to the forest interiors (see Kaunitz "improvement suggestions" thread), as well as adding bumps to the terrrain mesh to increases density and cutting LOS/LOF. Modding also helps by making bocage look like parts of pine trees. Examples below show crushed and fallen trees in a pine forest by adding bocage objects, as well as other stuff from the flavor objects collection. While the flavors do nothing for cover and concealment actually, they improve the scenery greatly IMHO. It´s still WIP (CMBN), but will be released to public later this year. Adaption to CMFB will follow. Low bocage flavor object put at the bottom of single pine trees. I also made a custom ground tile set for pine tree forests. Some pine tree flavor objects with some damage from shrapnel on the bark texture. Low bocage (true terrain type, not flavor object) with leaves/branches swapped for the pine type, serve as fallen trees and branches. Edited February 5, 2019 by RockinHarry 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletpoint Posted February 5, 2019 Author Share Posted February 5, 2019 13 minutes ago, RockinHarry said: I believe you also modded the actual trees to make the branches more sparse? Because in my game, the foliage is way more dense. When looking at these trees, I'm thinking obviously there will be a couple of gaps for LOS and LOF. I wouldn't trust this little forest to guard my flanks. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockinHarry Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Bulletpoint said: I believe you also modded the actual trees to make the branches more sparse? Because in my game, the foliage is way more dense. When looking at these trees, I'm thinking obviously there will be a couple of gaps for LOS and LOF. I wouldn't trust this little forest to guard my flanks. Yes I used Ramblers Trees & Bocage mod as a base. http://cmmodsiii.greenasjade.net/?p=2316 Main purpose is war torn looks on forested battlefields, with trees loosing more and more branches & leaves from repeated shelling. Thus the default density doesn´t provide quite the desired impression. I have not tested how much of a difference it makes with regard to "see through" nature of woods, when the branches are thinned out some. Think I´d add an option with default density branches if it matters. Just as you say, I wouldn´t trust either. I´d rather depend on (true) bocage and brush added to the edges, as well as interior for the LOS effects. Scattered terrain bumps (+1 ditch lock) helps as well. So playing the stock QB maps and maps that aren´t edited that way is most the time not an option. Another issue is the trees reshuffeld within the 8x8m terrain grid, leading each time after reloading to slightly different tree positions. This could lead to a number of small surprises after setup. Yet I´d wish too for BFC adding some standard trees with branches reaching closer to the ground. Everything else is just a partly and laborous solution. Edited February 5, 2019 by RockinHarry 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletpoint Posted February 5, 2019 Author Share Posted February 5, 2019 1 hour ago, RockinHarry said: Another issue is the trees reshuffeld within the 8x8m terrain grid, leading each time after reloading to slightly different tree positions. This could lead to a number of small surprises after setup. I think @Kaunitz once found out that the positions of the individual trees don't really matter for LOS? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaunitz Posted June 2, 2019 Share Posted June 2, 2019 (edited) On 2/5/2019 at 4:23 PM, Bulletpoint said: I think @Kaunitz once found out that the positions of the individual trees don't really matter for LOS? Some insights regarding trees: Note that I was unaware of this very enlighting piece of information provided by Vanir Ausf B back then, but reading through my tests and watching my videos, I'm not really sure whether the observed behaviour can be explained by it: Edited June 2, 2019 by Kaunitz 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted June 2, 2019 Share Posted June 2, 2019 Quote You would think the gunner would notice that tree right in front of him and not hit it. That would be a (real-world) issue with the parallax difference between the gun tube and the gunner's sight. In tight circumstances like in a stand of trees the commander (or whomever) may be compelled to open the breech and peer down the gun tube to confirm there's daylight at the other end. Stugs and Jpz IVs in particular had this problem. The roof-mounted gunners sight might see a clear view of the target while the low-mounted gun is pointing into intervening terrain. I read that Germans considered StuG and Jpz IV combat ineffective in Normandy terrain because of that. If you look at titles like CMBS the tree complaints usually go in the opposite direction, that foliage is too effective at blocking LOF. Those darned deciduous trees! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted June 2, 2019 Share Posted June 2, 2019 or as Joni Mitchell said in the original lyrics before a beta tester gave her grief I've looked at trees from both sides now From up and down, and still somehow It's tree illusions I recall I really don't know trees at all 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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