Can an MG42 Heavy MG take out a light armored vehicle?

[BeWary]

...say, around 16 MM of armor at a 0 degree slope?

I did a search but couldn't find the answer.

Thanks,

BeWary

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"Liberty or Death?" Make it "Victory or Pretty Damned Badly Wounded", and I'm yours. - a prospective recruit during the American Revolution.

[Pvt. Ryan]

You are probably going to get some very helpful technical answers, but to put it simply, I have not seen it happen in my games. The MG42 can take out a vehicle commander, obviously, but it is nowhere near as effective against armor as the .50 cal. machine gun.

[Colin]

Hmm...I'd be interested to see. I would imagine it could tear it up after some sustained fire.

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And if we abandon any platform, I can assure you it will not be the Macintosh.

-Steve

My website!

[Wolfe]

Yep. It sure can. I've taken out US HTs at ~200m before with the MG42. A penetration chart:

http://www.bigtimesoftware.com/images/mgvsht.jpg

But be aware that BTS changed the accuracy of MG fire against vehicles starting with version 1.04 so they're less likely to hit their target. Also, crews are less likely to bail from a vehicle that hasn't suffered serious damage.

- Chris

[Zaffod]

Ive been looking for a thread like this to reply to.... I read in the most recent book about Michael Wittman that he trotted down the street in Villars Bocage machine gunning HTs and carriers in his Tiger to save his main gun rounds. This had the effect of knocking out many of said HTs and causing others to explode! Im not too terribly sure what MGs were in Tigers and Panthers at that time but im mighty sure that is was something less powerful than a 42.. yea? This is why i can never figure out why turn after turn of peppering allied HTs w/ an mg 42 hardly ever results in a knock out or even abandonement. Even at close range I have seen HTs go about their merry way amidst constant HMG fire. I guess i can see how it may be relatively impervious from the front.. but the sides and back would be more vulnerable. Any detailed accounts you guys out there have that say otherwise... im quite anxious to know... tnx

Zaff'

[russellmz]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Wolfe:

Yep. It sure can. I've taken out US HTs at ~200m before with the MG42. A penetration chart:

http://www.bigtimesoftware.com/images/mgvsht.jpg

But be aware that BTS changed the accuracy of MG fire against vehicles starting with version 1.04 so they're less likely to hit their target. Also, crews are less likely to bail from a vehicle that hasn't suffered serious damage.

- Chris<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

ouch...and i thought the us's half-tracks were bad(weren't they called purple heart boxes?)

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"They had their chance- they have not lead!" - GW Bush

"They had mechanical pencils- they have not...lead?" - Jon Stewart on The Daily Show

[Jarmo]

It used to be easy to kill cars with MG42, not so anymore.

Now it's damn hard to kill a truck with it.

But it's also hard to kill german AC's with .50 cal, so it balances out.

[BeWary]

Well, apparently my gunner knew of the code change, as I told him to fire on a Daimler AC, but he immediately switched targets when the turn started.

Oh well, I may never know.

Here's another question though. Can the MG42 hit anything now?!? (I'm exaggerating) The gunner switched his target to a Piat team, moving rather slowly in open ground. He fired at it the whole turn, and the team survived. I thought this gun was supposed to be mega-powerful? On second thought, the Piat team probably just had divine intervention, because other squads were firing at it too during that turn, and it didn't seem to lose even one man.

Thanks for the replies all.

BeWary

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"Liberty or Death?" Make it "Victory or Pretty Damned Badly Wounded", and I'm yours. - a prospective recruit during the American Revolution.

[gibsonm]

One and all,

Just some answers to various issues raised here.

1. Most German AFV's in WWII had the MG34 as the commander's, coax and hull MG. This fired the same ammo (7.92mm) as the MG-42 but was an earlier, more complex design. German inf squads started the war with the MG34 but swapped over to the '42 as the war progressed. If I remember correctly the rate of fire for an MG34 was less than the MG42 as well.

2. Definitions of a HMG. The German's used the same gun for different roles. For Example the MG42 with a bipod was a LMG (reflecting the small amount of ammo carried and range offered in that configuration). However the same gun fitted to a tripod and with a 3rd crew memmber to carry ammo and spare barrels made it into a HMG with extended range and the ability to sustain such fire for longer.

Similarly the Vickers MG for the Brits used .303" ammo but was tripod mounted and water cooled providing the same HMG capabilities.

The Americans though used different weapons for different jobs. The .30" Cal MG fired 7.62mm ammo and was tripod mounted as a MMG. Their HMG was the .50" cal (12.7mm) which fired larger ammunition but at about the same cyclic rate (rounds per minute) as the .30" cal. The 0.50" cal was originally an aircraft weapon, you have probably seen it mounted in B-17's (Flying Fortresses)in movies. This weapon was and is ideal for dealing with light AFV's.

To conclude, the Germans and British used smaller calibres and high rates of fire to achieve HMG status (but with weapons designed primarily for use against inf), whilst the US used a weapon firing larger projectiles but at about the same rate per minute as a LMG or MMG.

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Regards,

Mark:-{)

Anxiously awaiting the G4 PowerBook

[jshandorf]

I think should answer all your questions...

"The fired projectile of the Infanteriepatrone had a typical initial energy E0 of 3,700 Joule (sS - projectile of 12.8g at a V0 of 760m/s) but could reach initial energies of over 4,500 Joule (some V-Patronen) depending on the concrete ammunition type and firing weapon.

Between 80 and 90 % of all 7,9mm ammunition produced was of the 7,9 sS (sS for schweres Spitzgeschoss = "heavy pointed bullet") type; the complete cartridge weighed 27g, it was 80.6 mm long and contained 2.7g of gunpowder; the projectile weighed 12.8 g and was 35mm long. When fired from a MG34 or MG42 (as well as from the other rifles using the cartridge) it had a typical V0 of 755 m/s. The regular sS projectile had the following penetration performance: 85cm of dry pine wood at 100m, 65cm at 400m, 45cm at 800m and 10cm at 1,800m; 10mm of iron at 300m, 7mm at 550m; 5mm of steel at 100m; 3mm at 600m."

I recall a halftrack has more than 5mm of steel.

Jeff