IntelWeenie Posted September 14, 2000 Share Posted September 14, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ellros: In today's CDmag online newsletter, they say they will be having a review of Computer SL up on the site in the next few days. They have barely described what it is supposed to be like however. Guess we'll have to wait and see what they say. -Rob<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Hee, hee. I did a search on CDmag's website and found this (dated 7/15/1998): http://www.cdmag.com/Home/home.html?article=/articles/013/063/squad_leader_dead.html Rough release date, indeed! ------------------ Canada: Where men were men, unless they were horses. -Dudley Do-right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamstersss Posted September 14, 2000 Share Posted September 14, 2000 I don't want to turn this discussion too serious but let me just say that the issue with blacks in SL is not their appearance rather it's their appearance in mixed units, which did not occur until Truman desegregated the army in the Korean War. Keep in mind that a greater percentage of blacks joined the army and fought in WWII than whites. ------------------ Did someone compare this to the Ealing comedies? I've shot people for less. -David Edelstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindan Posted September 14, 2000 Share Posted September 14, 2000 Hasbro means death to everything that doesn't appeal to the millions-strong masses. Avalon Hill, Microprose... destroyed, the only thing remaining are their names. Everything has to be colorful enough for children, easy enough to be played by morons, big enough to be packed in a huge box filled with plastic crap, fast enough to be played in a short evening... It's simply disgusting. "Family Wargame" - makes me throw up. ------------------ visit lindan.panzershark.com member of the Combat Mission webring Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teamski Posted September 14, 2000 Share Posted September 14, 2000 Hey, SL now means something besides Squad Leader, Its called: A Squandered Licence! Sad, sad, sad..... -Ski ------------------ "The Lieutenant brought his map out and the old woman pointed to the coastal town of Ravenoville........" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XPav Posted September 14, 2000 Share Posted September 14, 2000 I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to disagree with you. Over on the newsgroup comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.war-historical, the general consensus towards Squad Leader, was indeed, one of disgust and outrage. The producer, however, showed up, answered our questions, and addressed our concerns. Now, he's a wargamer, apparently! He's even played ASL. He acknowledges that this ain't going to be the most realistic hardcore wargame ever. Its not supposed to be. However, they are trying to make a good, solid, WW2 tactical game that is fun to play. You know what? All this bitching about "its not squad leader".... who the hell cares? Its a name. Nothing more. If the games good, well, then, great. If its not, well, then, its not. Anti-Hasbro Jihads against Hasbro (for SL, Falcon, M1TP3, B17 whatever) don't serve any purpose. Writing hate filled emailed to the support mailboxes at Hasbro and Microprose doesn't help either. And its not worth your time, or my time. We could be playing Combat Mission. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullethead Posted September 14, 2000 Share Posted September 14, 2000 Michael emrys said: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>People like Hasbro can play very, very dirty and I'd as soon they didn't hear about BTS for as long as possible. Let Charles and Steve devote themselves to turning out excellent games rather than having to deal with a hostile corporate giant.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Yeah, my nightmare is that someday all wargames might be assimilated by the evil Has-borg and become nothing but kiddie fodder. ------------------ -Bullethead Visit the Raider Operations message board at www.delphi.com/raiderops [This message has been edited by Bullethead (edited 09-14-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamstersss Posted September 14, 2000 Share Posted September 14, 2000 What, exactly, is your point Xpav? ------------------ Did someone compare this to the Ealing comedies? I've shot people for less. -David Edelstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abbott Posted September 14, 2000 Share Posted September 14, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by XPav: I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to disagree with you. Over on the newsgroup comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.war-historical, the general consensus towards Squad Leader, was indeed, one of disgust and outrage. The producer, however, showed up, answered our questions, and addressed our concerns. Now, he's a wargamer, apparently! He's even played ASL. He acknowledges that this ain't going to be the most realistic hardcore wargame ever. Its not supposed to be. However, they are trying to make a good, solid, WW2 tactical game that is fun to play. You know what? All this bitching about "its not squad leader".... who the hell cares? Its a name. Nothing more. If the games good, well, then, great. If its not, well, then, its not. Anti-Hasbro Jihads against Hasbro (for SL, Falcon, M1TP3, B17 whatever) don't serve any purpose. Writing hate filled emailed to the support mailboxes at Hasbro and Microprose doesn't help either. And its not worth your time, or my time. We could be playing Combat Mission.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I understand your argument The issue dearest to me is I played Squad Leader for 20 years always wishing for computer Squad Leader. That will NEVER ever be, now that Hasbro has the license and is publishing "Not Squad Leader". Making a good wargame is fine. But when it is called Squad Leader, make it Squad Leader. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teamski Posted September 14, 2000 Share Posted September 14, 2000 Abbott: Look at it this way, we could be without CM!!!! How could anybody make a PC game any more like SL than BTS????? I remember the first SL computer game by AH, Under Fire for the Commodore 64. That was a sad game. Well, anyways, CM fulfilled my dreams of having SL on the screen. I could care less about SL anymore. I'll keep the boardgame in the bookcase, just as a keepsake, but SL's gone, finis! CM is now the king, Long Live The King!!! -Ski ------------------ "The Lieutenant brought his map out and the old woman pointed to the coastal town of Ravenoville........" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XPav Posted September 14, 2000 Share Posted September 14, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>But when it is called Squad Leader, make it Squad Leader.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Its a name. That's it. It goes on the box. Its a good name, too. Nice, short, and easy to say. I don't think that Hasbro is trying to sucker people into buying it, because, quite frankly, how many people know what Squad Leader is/was in the first place? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IntelWeenie Posted September 14, 2000 Share Posted September 14, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by XPav: Writing hate filled emailed to the support mailboxes at Hasbro and Microprose doesn't help either.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Writing moderately toned email expressing disappointment in their products is very helpful, IMO. If no one tells Hasbro (or any company, for that matter) that you are willing to spend your money elsewhere (to get the products you want), how will they ever know? Lousy sales might be interpreted as lack of interest in wargames in general! Constructive criticism and product feedback should be welcome to any company. ------------------ Canada: Where men were men, unless they were horses. -Dudley Do-right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abbott Posted September 14, 2000 Share Posted September 14, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by XPav: Its a name. That's it. It goes on the box. Its a good name, too. Nice, short, and easy to say. I don't think that Hasbro is trying to sucker people into buying it, because, quite frankly, how many people know what Squad Leader is/was in the first place? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> That is not my point. My point is there can never be a Squad Leader now that this one will be published. The name is gone. It has nothing to do with suckering anyone into buying it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flipper Posted September 14, 2000 Share Posted September 14, 2000 yeah forget sl an pray b172 has some substance...but as for me there's a little title that's got me real curious any of you heard of "sea dog's" i usaually don't impulse buy anymore but for some reason I feel a stange need to get this one right off I'm a little ww2'd out right now anyone up for a pbem game of talon soft's "waterloo"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Shaw Posted September 14, 2000 Share Posted September 14, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Its a name. That's it.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> XPav, on one level your point is quite correct, it is only a name. HOWEVER, that name has come to be equated with historically accurate and detailed wargames that cover a specific period of time and a specific type and scale of combat. To say that it's "just a name" is to ignore the fact that by using that name Hasbro is, to a goodly number of people, using deceptive advertising. Now they have a right to do so since they bought the name, but that doesn't make it "right" nor does it change the disappointment felt by the original SL's fans. Frankly, I felt the same way when I saw the movie Starship Troopers. Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spook Posted September 14, 2000 Share Posted September 14, 2000 Perhaps gone from the computer, Abbott, but never gone from the tabletop. While I agree with Joe Shaw that "it's not just a name" (and yeah, I think that the ST movie pales to the book too), I have to also agree with XPav's assertion that it's a waste to attempt a flame war with Has-borg over this. Let Hasbro throw "SL" out on the market, let the chips fall as they will. We certainly aren't able to stop Hasbro anyway. But when new computer wargamers are asking for information on what's the difference between computer SL, the SL boardgame, CM, etc., then be prepared to answer. [This message has been edited by Spook (edited 09-14-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flipper Posted September 14, 2000 Share Posted September 14, 2000 starship troopers the movie that killed casper van dien's acting career I caught the last half of that movie on HBO.. GOD ALMIGHTY! the people at hasbro probably loved it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abbott Posted September 14, 2000 Share Posted September 14, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Spook: Perhaps gone from the computer, Abbot, but never gone from the tabletop. I have to agree with XPav's principle that it's a waste to attempt a flame war with Has-borg over this. Let Hasbro throw it out on the market, let the chips fall as they will. But when new computer wargamers are asking for information on what's the difference between computer SL, the SL boardgame, CM, etc., then be prepared to answer.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I apologize if my posts may be taken as rude or as starting a flame. That was not my intention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FutbolHead Posted September 14, 2000 Share Posted September 14, 2000 Geez, it's pretty simple folks. If you don't like the idea of Hasbro's game, don't buy it. It really doesn't matter what they should have done with the name, they ponied up the dough to buy the rights so they get to do with it what they damn well please. They risk the capital, they try to profit from it. In America, that's supposed to be a good thing which we call Capitalism. If your worried about your investment in it, if you buy it, buy from some place that allows returns. If you want to play real SL or ASL, play real SL or ASL. Although CM comes as close as it gets, it is not exactly like SL or ASL. Personally, I don't see the two competing against each other (CM and SL), they are way different types of games to anyone who examines the two with at least half a brain. I happen to like that type of game (turn based X-COM types), but I won't be playing it because it reminds me of SL or ASL. I will play it because I like that type of game. Anyone else who goes out with the intent to buy it should look at it for what it is then decide. I'm constantly amused (or is it annoyed) at people who knock a game before it comes out. They are the last people I take advice from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sniperscope Posted September 14, 2000 Share Posted September 14, 2000 Squad leader....I first saw the game at Orgins 2 in Balt. many many years ago when AH as a company was King. Played it for years. Now Hasbro is coming out with computer SL that has no SS? what war was that? Sorry Squad Leader=crap. sniperscope ------------------ <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>When CM arrived, all other land based war games became crap. sniperscope<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> [This message has been edited by sniperscope (edited 09-14-2000).] [This message has been edited by sniperscope (edited 09-14-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdmorse Posted September 14, 2000 Share Posted September 14, 2000 What is not appreciated in the "it's only a name" arguement is that the name has power and a $ draw.Why would Hasboro pay money for the AH stable and why market a game under that title? Is ALL about markets. Marketing is not about quality, but quantity. A whole group of people (former SL and ASL players) are a potential market. The general game popultion that heard of AH or the reputation that SL and ASL created are potentials. People, marketing cares only about how to create hooks, to get people to buy products. Whether it is "true" to original is not their concern, it is about manipulation, and yes deception. Playing off nostalgia or a reputation. The question will be does the company care about what happens AFTER the sale? BTS does, Hasboro doesn't. What I hear are people sad about what could have been, sad that a part of their past has been coopted. But what is sweet is that frankly, what happened LED directly to Combat Mission, the game that we who played SL (and Panzerblitz, Panzerleader, Tobruk etc) dreamed itcould be. The past is past. I have no affection for the demise of a great era, but hey, I have CM in my hands now, and I ain't stopping. ------------------ "The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers" -- King Henry VI, Part II, Act 4, sc.2, l.86 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sniperscope Posted September 14, 2000 Share Posted September 14, 2000 SOB.....Panzerblitz, Panzerleader, Tobruk,god I remember those great games. Late friday nights against my hated enemy... my brother SS Pieper. Beer, rum, music, maybe a little smoke and a fight to the death. sniperscope ------------------ <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>When CM arrived, all other land based war games became crap. sniperscope<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pzvg Posted September 15, 2000 Share Posted September 15, 2000 "It's only a name" And so are Men in Black,Starship Troopers,Star Trek, and James Bond, to mention a few, If, indeed, it is only a name, why would you imagine a game company forking over millions (yes millions) in licensing fees to studios? It's a little thing called "Name Brand Market Recognition" It is a marketing tool, used to induce people to buy the product at face value because of association with a recognized name, when it is done in earnest, it can become a great thing, when it is done as a cynical marketing ploy, it stands revealed as the single most callow thing about the gaming market. As for the games designer, well it is understandable that he wishes to make the game "right" Yet, bear in mind, Activision forced Parsoft to "dumb down" the flight models in Screaming Demons to make it more "accessable" to the "masses" Corperate types often have a vision too, It's called moving the market, or, "Hey Diablo 2 sold over 2 million units, couldn't we put some demons in this?" That sounds funny, but it's tragically real. As far as complaints, someone above(sorry for dropping the name) hit it right on the head, Don't buy the game, and they declare the market is no longer viable, don't buy the game and send them mail stating you will not buy garbage,so they had better think of how to make something besides garbage, and you will at least get their attention, for you will have shown them the market IS there, and if they don't get with it, someone else is going to take it from them. Now, are there any questions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tone Posted September 15, 2000 Share Posted September 15, 2000 pzvg -- you convinced me. I'm calling my upcoming game about the gunfight in Mogadishu "Checkers". Or perhaps, "Barbie's Totally Cool Checkers". You're the WB'er, right? tone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximus Posted September 15, 2000 Share Posted September 15, 2000 Hasbro's Squad Leader sounds like a game my uncle would buy. He also bought Beachhead 2000 which he thought was fun. But which in turn he bought the Sid Meier's Civsil War Series. Basically this new Squad Leader is a toned-down, politically correct, Soldiers at War II. The travesty is that Hasbro is using the AH licensed name of Squad Leader. And from which Hasbro absorbed AH, I think their intensions were exactly that as to throw on the well-known name of Squad Leader and produce another crap game to make a cheap buck.' But don't worry, the game will probably be in the bargain bin in a matter of a week or two. ------------------ All that sleeps, awakens... All that awakens, hungers... All that hungers, feeds... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pzvg Posted September 15, 2000 Share Posted September 15, 2000 pzvg> Tone, cc ------------------ Pzvg "Confucious say, it is better to remain silent, and be thought a fool, than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts