Hasbro's Squad Leader

[Philistine]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by M Hofbauer:

elementalware: legally hasbro can do as it pleases with the name.

not really. sorry but the intellectual property juriost in me kicks into gear. if the name "squad leader" was a so-called "notoric brand" (don't know the angloamerican expression, see article 6^bis Paris Agreement on the Protection of Commercial Property(the US is party to it)), that is, it would be a widely known concept = everybody would associate the name with certain qualities, then the use of that name for something that it doesn't live up to is consumer fraud.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

As I read the Convention I see no such thing. I believe all the convention is talking about is reciprical enforcement of a foreign trademarks, so that what is recognized as a trademark in one country(either technically or having such identification with a product to effectively be a trademark) will be given trademark protection in a signatory country. The only "remedy" mentioned in the convention is cancellation of the mark and prohibition of use.

But you can judge for yourself:

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> Article 6bis

(1) The countries of the Union undertake, ex officio if their legislation so permits, or at the request of an interested party, to refuse or to cancel the registration, and to prohibit the use, of a trademark which constitutes a reproduction, an imitation, or a translation, liable to create confusion, of a mark considered by the competent authority of the country of registration or use to be well known in that country as being

already the mark of a person entitled to the benefits of this Convention and used for identical or similar goods. These provisions shall also apply when the essential part of the mark constitutes a reproduction of any such well-known mark or an imitation liable to create confusion therewith.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

At least in the U.S., consumer fraud is generally a state-law issue, and I would be hard-pressed to imagine any realistic situation in which a consumer fraud action (or other criminal action) could be brought based upon a company's using a mark which it had purchased.

Just my $.02

--Philistine

(P.S. What is the difference between"kryptofascist" and "protofascist"?)

[Edited for formatting]

[This message has been edited by Philistine (edited 09-17-2000).]

[Slapdragon]

The Meeting Engagement

By Steve Jackson

Ken orders his Mark VI to stop. The metal of the heavy Panzer is biting cold as he removes his gloves and pulls out his map. The American "Seventeen" Armored Divison is up ahead, commanded by his old flame Barbie. Why oh why did the Americans allow women into combat? Was it political correctness, desperation, something else?

"What the matter Ken?" his driver Mark says. Ken shakes his head. "We are going to kill a friend. Sometime Ken wonders how the world came to be this way. His flat grey tank with the black racing stripes learches forward as Mark gives the gas. He coudl remember a time when the driver of his tank would be named Hans or something respectable, but no more, now it is Mark, and Jeff, and Scott. And he is Ken.

Suddenly he turns, from the side he sees it, a Sherman! And Barbie is in the turret wearing fashionable tankers cloths with a Armin Coteia leather jacket, a wool scarf, and a bikers helmet. How could this happen? How could Barbie do this?

The lime green Sherman tank, called an I-tank, pulls a stop and its deadly 76 trains on Ken's "Endangered Large Cat" tank (he remembered when they could call them Tigers and Panthers...). He hears her call out, "Ken -- I never thought I would see you again!"

"Barbie, great tank! Well, get it over with! Its over, and now you have one, shoot!"

"Ken, don't you see, I still have a cursh on you! Can't we hold hands like we used to?"

Ken remembered a time when he thought of more than holding hands, that was before General Hasbro came to the Army. "And a picnic lunch Barbie! We could have a picnic lunch! With the rest of our crews!"

Barbie squeels, as her multi-ethnic, multi-gendered tank crew pokes their heads from her tank. Fran, the Lesbian West Indian Sous Chef, Tommy, the deaf, mute, and blind accordian player - tank gunner from Seattle. Lewis, the 75 year old retired driver who is just doing this to be "with young people", her whole crew looked over joyed.

Barbie and Ken climb from their tanks and run together, kissing each other on the cheek. The world is good!

"Ken", Barbie says shyly, "How about we go to a prayer meeting after the battle and then help out at the nursing home they have set up at Corps HQ"

"Sounds swell Barbie!"

[Xyphorus]

Wayne,

If you are looking for a great game in the essence of Hasbro's Squad Leader, get 101st AB in Normandy. That is IMO, along with CM, one of the few great WWII simulations.

Many "old" titles out there have already delivered what you are looking for in the present/future when it comes to WWII wargames.

Anyways...

M Hofbauer,

Nice seeing you on the CM forum. Too bad that "I Got Milk" bullied you away from CC TGN's forum. I did appreciate your posts and contribution over there.

Have a nice day.

Karl

[Slapdragon]

Phillistine:

The rule you are quoting was pushed by the French (they have good reasons) and was designed to protect brand types from dilution -- for example American sparkling wine (Methode Champaniose) manufacturers marking their cheaper lower quality products as Champagne, or wine produces calling swill a "Burgandy" (Ernest and Julio Gallo for example). These lower quality products may reduce desire for the higher quality but more expensive French products (The French don't care about the better American vineries -- the costs are similar and the market is different).

The only way to make this rule work would be by implying the new Hasbro Squad Leader was using the term "War Game" improperly, and that would involve a court case.

You best bet is to register a domain squadleadersucks, and keep it in your pocket, then when the game comes out post a nice fat cirtical web site on the game.

[M Hofbauer]

Philistine,

I only have the german version. the part "or use to be well known in that country " is what I meant by "notoric brand".

At least in the U.S., consumer fraud is generally a state-law issue

you misunderstood me, it is a state-law issue here too, the (whats the official name for that paris convention now that we are at it, anyhow) PVÜ has no self-executing powers in the member states anyhow I think. I just wanted to describe the issue of a notoric brand.

(hard to explain but kryptofascist is a little more remote than protofascist)

------------------

"All i hear is the Iron Cross sucks etc. " (GAZ_NZ)

[M Hofbauer]

need to rephrase... I was going for that part

"of a mark considered by (...) use to be well known in that country"

there. Now even you funny english version makes sense )

Slapdragon, you are referring to the geographical origin brands/marks (gawd it's so hard to phrase this technical stuff in english) but it goes for "pure" name brands as well.

To illustrate, an example. Even if LEATHERMAN TOOL wasn't a registered trademark, it would still be a trademark as a "notoric mark" (or whatever you call that concept), because everybody knows what a LEATHERMAN TOOL is. Now, if somebody, even if he bought that name or a permission from the owner, would sell something as LEATHERMAN TOOL to the consuming public and it would turn out to be a pocket light, or a ballpen, or a hammer, then it would be a case of consumer deception because it did not live up to the notoriety/public perception of the nootoric mark LEATHERMAN TOOL, and consequently the company would be forced to abstinate from calling their product LEATHERMAN TOOL.

maybe now it is a little bit clearer what I meant.

Xyphorus, yes, I've actually been around here since the beginning (=the blue on white CM forum), it's generally a rather nice forum, and I've been to both. I don't go anywhere else anymore lately (little time=have to set priorities *g*). How are things over at ryan's board?

------------------

"All i hear is the Iron Cross sucks etc. " (GAZ_NZ)

[Philistine]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by M Hofbauer:

{snip}To illustrate, an example. Even if LEATHERMAN TOOL wasn't a registered trademark, it would still be a trademark as a "notoric mark" (or whatever you call that concept), because everybody knows what a LEATHERMAN TOOL is. Now, if somebody, even if he bought that name or a permission from the owner, would sell something as LEATHERMAN TOOL to the consuming public and it would turn out to be a pocket light, or a ballpen, or a hammer, then it would be a case of consumer deception because it did not live up to the notoriety/public perception of the nootoric mark LEATHERMAN TOOL, and consequently the company would be forced to abstinate from calling their product LEATHERMAN TOOL.{snip}

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, this is what I understood you to mean. I was trying to say that my reading of the Convention is that it only applies to stop an unauthorized use of a mark. Thus, I don't think that the owner (or a licensee) of the company owning LEATHERMAN TOOL could be forced under the Convention to stop using it for flashlights (for instance). (At least in the U.S.).

Of course, I could be wrong on this, I don't generally practice in the IP area.

--Philistine

[Slapdragon]

Ehh Phillistine, an ambulance chaser?

I had three damn law courses in the law college for my Masters and one of them the Professor was a Maritime Lawyer and he always had us read from Maritime laws on the wonderfully exciting subject of Torts (gag). Then I went to the Ph.D program and had to take a torts class again -- turns out no one uses Maritime law on land for anything!

Since then -- I saty away from the law College, even though my major professor is a libel lawyer with a PhD in communication, and my teaching department head is authorized to teach legal history in the Law College.

I almost slit my wrists with 3 law course, how can anyone survive 30?

[M Hofbauer]

Philistine,

of course you are perfectly right in your assumption, but...

sorry but we are talking about different things still / you still don't understand what I mean.

Read my original post again. I never implied that art. 6bis is the reason why one could demand something etc. I never propagated a case of Art. 6bis in the issue at hand

I only used the "legal definition" (it isn't a l.d. but it is an instance where it is mentioned in a lawbook that I expected you americans to have too) of a notoric mark, for which I didn't know your angloamerican equivalent, is mentioned, so that you would understand what institute (=that of a publicity / public knowledge - created trademark) I was talking about even if my description/words weren't the right ones.

hmm I hope you understand now what I meant?

------------------

"All i hear is the Iron Cross sucks etc. " (GAZ_NZ)

[Xyphorus]

M Hofbauer,

Ryan's board is still Ryan's board, if you get the drift. New mods for both CC3 and CC4 will be out soon (ie: CC3 WWI mod).

But like you I only have 24 hours a day, and I have been cutting down on CC. CM has been getting all my attention lately.

See you around,

Karl

[patboivin]

I am still waiting for G.I. Barbie and Homemaker Ken.

My son would love to play with those!

Imagine, G.I. Barbie is fighting on the front lines, meanwhile Ken is bored at home, and is wondering what Suzy Homemaker next door is doing, since her husband is fighting in the front lines too...