Should I buy Celeron or PIII?

[IDF]

Guys,

I just want your expert advice. I'm looking at buying a new computer but I'm real tight on budget. My primary useage of computer is for war games like CM, Commandos2, CC4 etc etc...

Does it make that much of a difference getting a Celeron 566Mhz as opposed to PIII?

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lead by example!!

[PraetorianXXI]

Personally id get a AMD altholon 1 gig

but if you are really tight on budget the only way is a celeron then overclock it

as the pentium range have a tendancy to overheat when overclocked, and cause damage

heres A TIP dont put on the little pentium sticker so u can sell or exchange the CPU later

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~Veni Vidi Vici~

[cward]

Originally posted by PraetorianXXI:

Personally id get a AMD altholon 1 gig

but if you are really tight on budget the only way is a celeron then overclock it

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Bosh.. I have a CEL466 with 128MB and it runs beautifully.. Heres the skinny. The difference with a celeron and a PII is that the on chip cache on the celeron is half the size but runs at processor speed. on the pii it is twice the size and runs on half speed..

Now playing games.. a single thread the difference in percieved speed in a celeron and a Pii will be very small, not worth the extra $ if you ask me.. where the PII excells is in multiple threads.. Doing office, explorer, running solitare and excel.. at the same time..

While the PII is faster. The difference (to me anyway) in price is not really justifyable..

My advice.. get the fastest Celeron that you can afford, get 128MB ram minimum, and a high quality AGP 3d video card. If on a budget I really like the voodoo 3000.. It may not be the greatest but its cheap and i have NEVER had a compatability problem. Skimping and getting a $12 video card just isnt worth it..

As for the PIII, IT isnt for one on a budget.. I cannot say to the AMD as I have never used one..

if you are not sure what these things will cost check out WWW.PRICEWATCH.COM, while I dont recommend buying every component from a different vendor it gives a good baseline $ for each item.

Email me if you want more info

Christopher_ward@hotmail.com

(I remember having to upgrade my 486DX2/66 when CivII would play so badly.. I spent $600 and it was the best $ I ever spent.. thank god CM works well on what I have!)

[SS_PanzerLeader]

I've had all three - personally I prefer my P3 but the AMD K62 is dirt cheap and I had less trouble with that than the celerons. Trying to geet on e that over clocks and is stable is tough. If you can find one and keep it kool its a good way to go. But you can get a K62 or K63 for between 45 - 85 bucks ranging from 400 - 550 MHZ. My sons PC has the AMD k62 400 he plays every thing I play on a p3 500 if y a go AMD get a GOOD mb tho dont buy cheap

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SS_PanzerLeader.......out

[Monkeybutt]

You could go with AMD's Duron.It's basically like a Athlon with a celeron-like price.

-Monkeybutt

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The Combat Mission Scenario Dump! http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/3805/Cm.html

[MarkEzra]

I can't argue the pros and cons of Ath/P3 stuff. But I can tell you this: When I purchased my E-Monster (a gamer ready P3/500 from E-machines) I used there rebate offer for using Compuserv as my IP. The PC came in just over $900, rebate $400 (took 6 weeks) eased the strain on my card very nicely. Whatever you do get the unit that can handle CM now and future...I truly believe that my upgrade from a 486 to the E Mach to be the best return on my money (outside my wifes wedding ring, of course!). Many happy hours of Beta/Gold/Full PBEM CM.

Good luck shopping

[PraetorianXXI]

You can also get a specially designed tower for the AMD they have a coolant system in them (im not very sure if they scrapped them i thik they did check it out though)

anyway on a budget id get a celeron over all just because of the trade in value for later thats why, get a 600 lets say and you can sell for a reasonable price laterr on!!

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~Veni Vidi Vici~

[Guest Heinz 25th PzReg]

Hello

I would go for the new AMD Duron if I were you. Its very cheap and its fast. You will also need a new Socket-A motherboard for this cpu. But then you will be able to use AMD Thunderbird cpu`s in the future. I think the AMD Duron will give you most bang for your buck.

Regards,

Heinz

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"To subdue your enemy without fighting is the supreme excellence." - Sun Tzu, The Art of War

[Guest herbjorn]

Jupp, definitely get a duron. I just bought a 650 MHz Duron myself, now I just have to wait for the abit K7 motherboard to become available. Depending on wether AMD made any last minute changes to the processor or not, you might be able to overclock it to 900 or 950 MHz. Also, do yourself a favour and get the geforce2mx when it becomes available, almost the speed of a geforce256 but should be much cheaper.

soon my lovely cel300@450 and tnt can RIP

[Supertanker]

I'm building a new system, so I have researched this a lot. I'm sticking to Intel CPUs, so I don't discuss AMD products. This turned out to be much longer than planned, but here goes:

There are a few key differences between the new Celerons and the PIII. Intel is trying create more of an incentive to go PIII if you are seeking performance.

Both have full-speed, on-die L2 cache, but the PIII has 256k to the Celeron's 128k. The PIII cache is also 8-way associative, while the Celeron's is 4-way associative. Essentially, this gives the PIII a much higher hit rate for the predicted calculations stored in the L2 cache, which means more speed. For more explanation, see http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.html?i=1227&p=5 .

Front-side bus speed is also an issue. The Celerons are officially only 66MHz FSB, and can't likely be over-clocked to 100MHz FSB very well. The Celerons are getting hard to OC because they have high clock multipliers to get the advertised speed. For example, a 566 Celeron is already at 8.5, so bumping the FSB to 100MHz means you have pushed the poor thing to 850MHz. That is almost guaranteed to fail; it probably won't even boot.

The slower PIIIs are 100MHz FSB, and the faster ones are 133MHz FSB. There is some major FSB speed difference between a stock Celeron at 66 and a PIII at 133.

If you want to OC, it is tough to OC a 133 FSB (you start pushing your other parts out of spec), but if you buy an "E" series PIII, they are still based on 100MHz FSB, and so generally OC to 133 very well. For example, most 550E chips I've seen can bang right up to 733 by simply changing the FSB to 133 (5.5 clock multiplier x 100Mhz FSB = 550MHz; 5.5 multiplier x 133MHz FSB = 733MHZ). The reason for this is that the 550E and the 733EB (the EB series uses the 133MHz FSB) share the same core. I don't know what the Celerons go for, but the 550E is about $215 these days.

While it is cheaper to OC these chips than buy the factory speed, keep in mind that as the chips get faster, the OC becomes less certain. I have a friend with a 600E that refuses to run at 133, but runs at 131 just fine. So, he ends up with 786MHz (6.0 x 131) instead of 800MHz (6.0 x 133). Still cheaper than a 733 or an 800 from the factory, though you void your warranty.

That's all for now, hope it helps.

[Rod]

Just my two cents worth here. Its kind of a crappy time to buy a computer (especially if you are looking for upgradibility). This is because we are kind of in a transition period. This is because of the chipset situation. Right now there are no good chipsets for the PIIIs. This is mostly due to Intel and there stock in rambus memory. Intels i820 and i840 chipsets designed for the PIII only use expensive rambus memory as opposed to more popular sdram. Actually the best chipset for the PIII and celerons is the venerable 440bx chipset but it has to be overclocked to run 133Mhz FSB and PC133 sdram and has the effect of running the agp port out of spec, which can crash some video cards. Intel recently backed off there stance on Rambus and have released a new chipset, the i815 which has a 133Mhz FSB and supports sdram. Unfortunely intel has no plans to widely distribute this chipset.

I've always been a supporter of Intel but IMHO they really dropped the ball. For the first time I am seriously considering buying a AMD for a computer I'm building for my brother-in-law. Its looking like the duron to thunderbird is the best upgrade route. The durons reportedly smoke the celeron and will be fully compatible with thunderbird chips. Now the problem with the Duron and Thunderbird chips are relatively new and a adequate chipset is still not widely availiable. But they will support sdram and apparently the new improved DDR sdram. Its looks like things will be a little clearer in a couple of months if you can wait. Easier said then done.

Check out http://www.tomshardware.com if you get the chance.

[Supertanker]

Rod is right, Intel definitely dropped the motherboard ball, and I saw a link on Shugashack to a place on Intel's web page that shows SDRAM to be faster than Rambus. However, SDRAM prices are creeping up, partially because Rambus just won a big patent infringement lawsuit against one of the big SDRAM makers. Royalty payments now are due on SDRAM.

Your realistic PIII mobo choices are the OC'd BX boards, or the VIA 133A boards. I just bought an ASUS P3V4X motherboard, which uses the 133A chipset. It has AGP4x, four DIMM slots, 6 PCI, and 1 ISA, and has placed in the top two or three of every 133A comparison I've seen. It may have a stability edge over an OC BX, but the BX is a little faster, as I recall. VIA also just settled a big lawsuit with Intel, which I think included an Intel blessing/license for the VIA chipset.

[Smoker]

IDF,

For the games you play a Celeron 566 and a Voodoo3 would be fine. I would look seriously at AMD's Duron, however. It's faster than a Celeron and just as cheap.

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Smoker out.

[Guest grunto]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by IDF:

Guys,

I just want your expert advice. I'm looking at buying a new computer but I'm real tight on budget. My primary useage of computer is for war games like CM, Commandos2, CC4 etc etc...

Does it make that much of a difference getting a Celeron 566Mhz as opposed to PIII?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

ok i have a very basic machine. 66mhz bus with celeron 400/128mbRAM/Monster IIID accelerator with 8mb of RAM (early voodo)

this machine handles about 1500 points per side on a medium map nicely.

andy

[Dschugaschwili]

I'd take a Duron at the moment. Faster than a Celeron , but equally cheap. AMD will include a multiplier lock though, so you may not be able to overclock it without messing with the chip (see www.tomshardware.com for details).

As for memory, I wouldn't go with less than 128MB, but more seems unaffordable at the moment.

For the graphics card: If you can wait a few weeks, wait for the GeForce2 MX. It will have a performance similar to the original GeForce, but for a much lower price.

For other hints on buying hardware, www.anandtech.com posts buyers' guides every months. Great for getting a feel for what you might want to buy.

Dschugaschwili

[Rod]

Supertanker, I hadn't heard about the royalty thing with sdram. Makes you really hate Rambus. The via chipsets are definately an option but they are I believe due out with a better one also. Its sad that a two year old chipset (440Bx) is still probably the best performer. Reminds me of the time Coke tried to change its formula. Those guys aren't working at Intel now are they?

[LORD ORION]

Well, I'm upgrading me 333a this Thursday, and it's going to be a Celeron II 566.

Why? Because like you, I'm on a budget

Additionally, you have to love that 66Mhz FSB on the Celeron II. Considering it's a coppermine core which are all desgined to run at 100Mhz FSB, cranking up the clock is NOT a problem.

So far I haven't seen a 566 Celery II that won't overclock to 100FSB, which puts your speed up to 850Mhz.

Of course, a Celeron II overclocked to 850 performs more like a Pentium III 650E.

But hey, look at the price difference. Mother board+ Celeron II = P3 650e alone.

Additionally, plan ahead with you motherboard purchase. I'm getting a Tyan Trinity 400. Why? Because it has both socket 370 and slot 1. So, if you outgrow your Celeron in 4 months, you should be able to pick up a real coppermine P3 for a very good price.

Just some thoughts.....

Heh, and that's my geek speak for the day, now back to the front lines

-Orion

[ARCHANGEL]

Tomorrow I am picking up my new rig, which is an AMD 900 with 256 RAM (room for more too), and a Voodoo 5 card. (So I can still fly some old flt sims, that I love) This is an interim computer and I think will serve nicely.

I did a lot of pricing and found that the AMD 900 on an AMD recommended motherboard, is well priced...under 500 bucks as I recall.

Maybe less...(just now I cannot find the order sheet...)The extra 100 from a 900 to a one gig was something like twice the price.

I am using my old DVD, CD-RW,Zip, screen, printer and scanner, all of which work wonderfully. I bought a new sound card from GEEKS.com and I got new A/L speakers on sale at CompcrapUSA.

Counting the trade in of my old Dell D300XPS, the whole thing is about 1700 dollars...and it is in a wonderful BLUE midi tower...(I am SO weary of this beige stuff)

Rookie advised me along the way, since I had NO idea what to do short of calling Dell again (this is my fifth Dell, so moving on is timely).

Anyway...I am switiching to AMD...we'll see how it works out.

[Rod]

Supertanker and others interested,

Came across this article which discusses the state of memory at the moment. It really seems like those Rambus guys are a bunch of weasels. If they get their way we will all be paying more for memory. But it looks like there is hope.

http://www.tomshardware.com/column/00q3/000719/index.html

[Guest David Harrison]

If i820 with Rambus is such a poor performer as Tom's tests show, why are sites such as Sharky Extreme and Computer Gaming World recommending them for their "power rigs?" I bought it to play games based on those recommendations. My Dell i820 with RDRAM arrives tomorrow, please don't tell me I made a mistake

[Rod]

David,

I have no doubt that your new system will smoke. Rambus has its benefits and can be quite fast at certain tasks, sdram at others. Its more of a price to performance issue. In a couple of months things should open up more for sdram, but in the meantime choices are limited thanks to Intel. As far as making a mistake I wouldn't worry about it. Two months of playing CM on your new computer while the dust settles is worth it.