HerrTom Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 I've been having a problem with my ATGMs in my PBEM game. They won't shoot at anything. This team spent the whole minute with a target order on the tank, but didn't even rotate to aim at it. The tank drove forwards into full view and nuked a BTR. What's the trick into getting ATGMs to fire? Has anyone else seen this happen? I'm running CMBS v2.00 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erwin Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 Generally it's best to just let the ATGM units fire on their own terms (with a covered arc to direct attention to a particular target) rather than giving TARGET commands. Just cos it looks like an easy kill to the human player's eyes, doesn't mean the unit "sees" it that way. Also, the AI may decide that it's a too low probability kill. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HerrTom Posted July 28, 2018 Author Share Posted July 28, 2018 So in that case even with a target command and line of sight they'll ignore it? Curious. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Canadian Cat Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 Well the target command should work. Do they also have a pause order? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HerrTom Posted July 28, 2018 Author Share Posted July 28, 2018 Nope. They were sitting there, spotted the tank the previous turn. I gave the target command on the tank, it moved across their line of sight, where they lost it after about 45 seconds, then the tank shot and killed a BTR. This team in particular I think fired one ATGM at the beginning of the game, missed, and has spotted various vehicles for the past 10 minutes and refused to shoot at any of them. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erwin Posted July 29, 2018 Share Posted July 29, 2018 Yeah, have experienced this regularly as well. I just assumed that the AI won't waste ammo on a hopeless fire mission. The question is how is "hopeless" defined. eg: The crewman without the Javelin has wonderful LOS, but the bloke with the Javelin launcher does not. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Canadian Cat Posted July 29, 2018 Share Posted July 29, 2018 15 hours ago, HerrTom said: Nope. They were sitting there, spotted the tank the previous turn. I gave the target command on the tank, it moved across their line of sight, where they lost it after about 45 seconds, then the tank shot and killed a BTR. This team in particular I think fired one ATGM at the beginning of the game, missed, and has spotted various vehicles for the past 10 minutes and refused to shoot at any of them. They are afraid of failure. Sounds goofy. Can you share a save? That way I can look at the terrain etc and try and repeat it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougPhresh Posted July 29, 2018 Share Posted July 29, 2018 It would be nice if, in addition to Target, Target Light and Target Timed there was a way to select which weapon to fire. The BMP-2M comes to mind which has an Autocannon, LMG, ATGM and AGL. The first thing that comes to mind is having something similar to when you place a move order on a building and you get the little pop up that asks which floor. Simply have that come up when you place a target marker and have a list of available weapons, with the default set for all, which is I think the current behavior. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Canadian Cat Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 1 hour ago, DougPhresh said: It would be nice if, in addition to Target, Target Light and Target Timed there was a way to select which weapon to fire. The BMP-2M comes to mind which has an Autocannon, LMG, ATGM and AGL. Yes, this comes up frequently and you have allies. People clearly have a desire to micro manage things . Steve has talked about the game design issues that lead to why it is the way it is in the past. I am sure I will not do it justice but the short version is that changing it would: 1 it add more work and adding more work is not desirable and 2 it would give the human play yet another advantage over the AI. I usually let my unit's TAC AI do it's thing and only using target to area fire or disambiguate multiple targets and only then rarely. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HerrTom Posted July 30, 2018 Author Share Posted July 30, 2018 1 hour ago, IanL said: I usually let my unit's TAC AI do it's thing and only using target to area fire or disambiguate multiple targets and only then rarely. Me too. May be why I never saw this before, since I rarely use target let alone target arcs! I agree that complexity is not always the solution - I find the AI often makes good decisions on what weapon to use. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sublime Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 +100 Im behind the curve I will say - I decided not to get 4.0 yet etc but Im still yet to EVER see one of my BMP2Ms with a 3rd crew member added ever use its atgms. targetted, arced, or on their own. On the move ambush defense etc. Long range close range all aspects. Countless games as Russians. Ive brought it up numerous times in the past 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erwin Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 On 7/29/2018 at 6:49 PM, IanL said: Yes, this comes up frequently and you have allies. People clearly have a desire to micro manage things . Steve has talked about the game design issues that lead to why it is the way it is in the past. I am sure I will not do it justice but the short version is that changing it would: 1 it add more work and adding more work is not desirable and 2 it would give the human play yet another advantage over the AI. I usually let my unit's TAC AI do it's thing and only using target to area fire or disambiguate multiple targets and only then rarely. Inability to select main weapons has same issue with the Ukrainian BTR4. It has 30mm plus AGL and in the many times I have played with a BTR4, it always exhausts its 30mm HE (at 10 rounds/sec it takes only about 40-50 seconds) regardless of the suitability of the target before it uses the AGL. Maybe not economical/practical to address for CM2, but hope this is on the list for CM3. Incidentally. a major problem with fast firing weapons like the BTR4's 30mm is that it only requires maybe 5 seconds of fire to be effective. If one uses the 15 second fire command it uses way too much ammo (approx 25% of its entire HE load-out). Currently, one has to revert to the old work around of having waypoints with a 5 second pause and TARGET command followed by a fast move to another waypoint a few meters way with a covered arc or facing command to stop the firing. How practical would it be to reduce the firing time span command to 5 second increments? For modern weapons that is often all one needs. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTR Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 It could be a bush/foliage problem. In that screenshot I see that the launcher looks to be deployed in a bush and has weeds in front of it. Perhaps that is what is causing the ATGMs to not fire. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HerrTom Posted July 31, 2018 Author Share Posted July 31, 2018 That's true, there may be a bush in front of the launcher. Annoying that i have to put up with a whole minute of unpack and pack time just to move the launcher a few centimeters if that's the case... I'm beginning to see the annoying LoS issues that people sometimes complain about. Zero feedback to me as to why they decide shooting isn't worth it... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erwin Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 +1 Have regularly brought up the issue of the 3rd ammo bearer having great LOS, but the guy with the main weapon can't move a few inches to get the same LOS. Dunno how hard it would be to program so that the move is automatically made by the AI. But, obviously, one never orders a main weapon, gun or ATGM to fire with the intention of merely having the 3rd ammo loader fire his rifle instead. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 Well just having the screenshot doesn’t help. To harp on a consistent message, a save would go a long way towards a better answer or a bug post. Without it, can’t really do either. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HerrTom Posted July 31, 2018 Author Share Posted July 31, 2018 (edited) I sent it to Ian but now that I think of it, I don't think my opponent visits this forum so I'll post it when I get home today. Edit: Turn is here: https://drive.google.com/open?id=11_erpUiUrYmQKfc0qiWim0SUD41a96Bu Turn password is "hairtonic" (get it?) You can get a glimpse at how poorly things are going for me on the Dnjepr... Edited August 1, 2018 by HerrTom Link 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Canadian Cat Posted August 1, 2018 Share Posted August 1, 2018 Yeah I have not had a chance to look at it yet. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted August 1, 2018 Share Posted August 1, 2018 2 hours ago, IanL said: Yeah I have not had a chance to look at it yet. well you do have a battle to fight... speaking of which..... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HerrTom Posted August 1, 2018 Author Share Posted August 1, 2018 Yeah! Learn from my mistakes! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTR Posted August 1, 2018 Share Posted August 1, 2018 I got burned on this so many times I just gave up deploying ATGMs in any sort of sketchy positions. There is some truth to this systems unreliability in terms of how laser command information channels can get blocked by moving grass and whatnot, and this even may be the case if you lose visual queue to your receiver from the missile. Subjectively there seems to be a bit of a disconnect between the visual representation in-game and the deeper mechanical logic which leads to unpredictable outcomes. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kinophile Posted August 1, 2018 Share Posted August 1, 2018 The crew are marked as Nervous... I've had that reduce a units aggressiveness. Perhaps they feel too exposed to fire without being snotted? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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