MGs in buildings moving to other windows, breaking LOS

[Bulletpoint]

I just played a battle where I deployed one MG in a keyholed building, covering an open field to the east and I put another MG in another building looking down a road towards the west. During setup, they had great LOS and were protected from enemy fire.

But after about 5 minutes, I noticed both teams had shuffled around, moving the MG to another window without LOS.

One of the teams had a covered arc set, the other hadn't.

My whole defensive plan was based on those two fire lanes, so everything just fell apart. Worst bit was spotting a enemy whole platoon running across the open field in one big bunch, and I couldn't fire a shot.

I must admit I rage-quit, but now I am wondering if there's anything I can possibly do to prevent this happening again? Why is it the TacAI decides to change location of the MG?

[Muzzleflash1990]

I am not sure you can do anything to prevent it. Others has had similar problems, I'm just gonna leave this link here:

.

[Mordran]

Well if it was a Bren it wouldn't have mattered even if they could see the enemy as they would only have fired single shots unless the enemy was within 150m... but on topic, MG's in buildings have been problematic for a long while - setup times are in the minutes and if they swap windows it seems they need to pack up and redeploy - taking minutes.  I guess in some ways this reflects the necessity of having to make a firing position, but I would expect a crew in a building would organise alternative firing positions when they occupied the building. Perhaps the time to redeploy needs to be less if a crew starts the game in a building... 

 

[Erwin]

Did you give them a restricted (ie 30 degrees maybe) covered arc in the direction you wanted the MG to face? 

[Bulletpoint]

39 minutes ago, Mordran said:

Well if it was a Bren it wouldn't have mattered even if they could see the enemy as they would only have fired single shots unless the enemy was within 150m...

Nope, because I'm still on v.3.12 so my brens work fine

In any case, it was a deployed MG42

[Bulletpoint]

22 minutes ago, Erwin said:

Did you give them a restricted (ie 30 degrees maybe) covered arc in the direction you wanted the MG to face? 

No, the one with the arc got an 180 degree arc. I think that one moved the MG once enemy infantry was very close.

The other one didn't get an arc, but no enemies were close either.

[Bulletpoint]

1 hour ago, Muzzleflash1990 said:

I am not sure you can do anything to prevent it. Others has had similar problems, I'm just gonna leave this link here:

.

I think that is a separate issue where JasonC could not get the LOS he believed there should be in the place he put his MG.

My issue is about the LOS being fine, but that the MG will then for some reason move to another window later, spoiling the LOS.

[Erwin]

We all face this issue.  But, am puzzled as I thought that if one places an arc so that the unit is "encouraged" to face a particular direction - like an AFV turret - that would make the weapon point in the desired direction.

[MOS:96B2P]

11 hours ago, Bulletpoint said:

<Snip>  I must admit I rage-quit, but now I am wondering if there's anything I can possibly do to prevent this happening again? Why is it the TacAI decides to change location of the MG?

I'm just curious, what was the motivation level of the two MG teams?   Also a 180^o Target Arc is kind of big.  Was that other window, that they moved to, within that 180 arc?  The below is just my guess at what might be going on.

The higher the motivation level the more strictly the troops will follow orders even when not in their own best interest.  As in the tank commander example who has high motivation and was ordered to Open Up.  He refuses to close the hatch when taking heavy incoming rifle fire.  So the reverse is also true.  The lower the motivation level of the team the more likely they may do their own thing.  

I almost always give a HMG team, inside a building, a wedge shaped Target Arc to make them look out the correct side of the building.  I think wedge shaped Target Arc plus High, or better, motivation would do the job.  I generally give tank commanders regular motivation and HMG teams high motivation.  

 

[Bulletpoint]

11 hours ago, MOS:96B2P said:

I'm just curious, what was the motivation level of the two MG teams?   Also a 180^o Target Arc is kind of big.  Was that other window, that they moved to, within that 180 arc?

Let's forget about the team with the arc, because they had some enemies coming up the street, inside th earc, and they moved the MG to engage those, I suppose. After they gunned down their foes, the MG was stuck in a useless position, but I sort of accept it made sense to move the gun.

The other team had no arc, but it had spotted no enemies, as far as I could tell, and there were definitely no enemies close. The team just suddenly decided to move the gun to another window for fun... apparently.

[Bulletpoint]

15 hours ago, Erwin said:

We all face this issue.  But, am puzzled as I thought that if one places an arc so that the unit is "encouraged" to face a particular direction - like an AFV turret - that would make the weapon point in the desired direction.

It does, but the problem here is not the facing. The problem is that this particular building had three windows. Window 1 and 2 had clear LOS, but window 3 hadn't. They started the battle in window 1, but then moved their gun to window 3 on their own initiative.

[Erwin]

I can't recall having this sort of problem since I started using the technique that MOS describes: "a wedge shaped Target Arc"