Sp Guns - Indirect fire

[Jaeger Jonzo]

Why on earth after so many releases of CM do we still not have the capability of ordering SP guns to fire indirectly as fire support? ie like they were designed for !!

This is particularly painful when playing as allied troops against usually better weaponed/dug in German forces. Maybe I should have posted this in the CMBN forum where it particulary annoys me considering the Allies relied so heavily on overwhelming indirect fire against a tough foe, but as this is the latest release and still not able, I thought I would ask.

I am currently fighting the Verrieres ridge scenario at present and I have two 105mm SP Guns sat back out of sight completely unable to engage anything whilst I have an FOO with perfect observation on the ridge with dug in 88's. Anything that sticks its nose out of the trees will be instantly clobbered. (and before anyone suggests it, yes I had already targeted the guns with the limited arty available but they didn't take out all the guns).

For a series that prides itself on authenticity, this seems one of those glaring feux-pas  :-(   I don't buy the excuse of people using them too gamily, that can always be sorted out between opponents.

So is there any reason why they cant be used like any mortar team and be given indirect fire orders? even for smoke rounds would be useful.

 

[rocketman]

Could it be because the usual CM scenario is too short range for them to function as on-map indirect fire? Their arc of fire is too flat?

[Aragorn2002]

1 hour ago, rocketman said:

Could it be because the usual CM scenario is too short range for them to function as on-map indirect fire? Their arc of fire is too flat?

That could be an explanation. I did a test just now. The Grille for instance can fire indirectly as fire support, but not the Wespe (not even on a map of 5 km in depth, although the minimum range of a 105mm is probably something between 1500 and 2000 metres). But I agree with JJ that it should be possible. Just because it's fun.

Edited January 29, 2017 by Aragorn2002

[RockinHarry]

42 minutes ago, Aragorn2002 said:

That could be an explanation. I did a test just now. The Grille for instance can fire indirectly as fire support, but not the Wespe (not even on a map of 5 km in depth). But I agree with JJ that it should be possible.

haven´t tested myself, but only very high angle (70-85°) short barrel howitzers, just like their mortar brothers (<120mm) would have the required minimum range to cover the largest possible CM map, while beeing an on map asset. The minimum range for some SP guns, like the Priest or Wespe is surely way beyond that. If a scenario designer added these SP guns to his mission, then maybe he figured these guns were present in a historical battle on map, but were used as direct fire weapons. A hypothetical situation would also be thinkable. The bulge battle gives a many examples for some US artillery units to defend vs. german spearheads with direct fire, but usually these guns were far behind the frontlines like the towed variations.

Haven´t played that Verrieres scenario, but maybe the author figured some effective method to employ the Priests (?) without getting them slaughtered. Some tricky target area fire method would be thinkable. Otherwise he´d better added more off map 105mm maybe.

[Sailor Malan2]

Also there is the minor detail that you can't indirect fire without surveying yourself in accurately. Really not on in CM timescales. The allowing of mortars to indirect fire without any penalty as soon as they set up is pretty debatable.  SP atillery needs to be off map to fire indirect (models pre-positioned guns). Dont know what the scenario designer intended but the game is pretty good generally.

[Jaeger Jonzo]

The minimum range sounded plausible but aren't these in fact howitzers mounted on AFv chassis? I only found figures for German sp gun elevation ranges but for most they have anything from -10 degs to +40 to 70 for everything upto 150mm.  So in theory there is no minimum range, ammo and fuse dependant. 

They would have maps and radios onboard so see no reason why the OP couldn't give them a fire mission rather than sit redundant behind the trees. 

[A Canadian Cat]

16 hours ago, Sailor Malan2 said:

Also there is the minor detail that you can't indirect fire without surveying yourself in accurately. Really not on in CM timescales. The allowing of mortars to indirect fire without any penalty as soon as they set up is pretty debatable. ...

Adding to the above. The bottom line is that SP guns are included in the game so that scenario designers can use them to create situations where they were used for direct fire. The tools are also there to use them for indirect fire too - by adding then to the artillery panel. Scenario designers decide which they are used for in their scenario.

[Jaeger Jonzo]

The Priest was limited to a 35 degree elevation apparently 

[Aragorn2002]

40 minutes ago, IanL said:

Adding to the above. The bottom line is that SP guns are included in the game so that scenario designers can use them to create situations where they were used for direct fire. The tools are also there to use them for indirect fire too - by adding then to the artillery panel. Scenario designers decide which they are used for in their scenario.

That is also true. For effect one can place the SP's on  the map, but use off map artillery to fire with. The result is somewhat less spectacular perhaps, but equally effective. I usually do that with huge maps. Doesn't work for everyone of course, but life is improvisaton, isn't it?

Edited January 30, 2017 by Aragorn2002

[kevinkin]

To Ian's and Sailor Malan2 points, adding SP artillery as a IF battery simulates the battery in firing position on level ground with trigonometry calculated. Motoring an independent SP piece around the battlefield lobbing shells over stands of trees and buildings would not have been very accurate. Mortar half-tracks were a bit more responsive but their in-game accuracy still suffers not to mention the firing delays. I try to avoid using on-map assets for IF. Maneuvering them into a concealed DF position is worth a the risk. It's also a very intriguing part of the game. 

Kevin

Edited January 30, 2017 by kevinkin