US Marines exercising an amphibious landing operation near Odessa.

[Plague2Delta]

42 minutes ago, c3k said:

 

Good to know and thanks (sincerely) for your service and for the input. But, you do know you're ruining the image of dozens of gung-ho Marines "training" on Jet Skis at beaches across the globe? "First squad! We've got TDY orders to Daytona Beach to practice our beach landing SOP/TTPs! Mount up!"  

 

Thank you, I appreciate that and if I read correctly, you served as well so thank you. Your idea of Jet Ski amphibious ops sounds far better than the grinding hot hours inside of a track lol. Which reminds me, a few years ago, one of our sister battalions in our regiment was training for amphib ops when one of the tracks literally sank in the river. Fun times lol. 

[Michael Emrys]

On August 11, 2016 at 7:46 AM, Plague2Delta said:

Which reminds me, a few years ago, one of our sister battalions in our regiment was training for amphib ops when one of the tracks literally sank in the river.

How could that happen? Did somebody leave a hatch open?

Michael

[Plague2Delta]

5 hours ago, Michael Emrys said:

How could that happen? Did somebody leave a hatch open?

Michael

I honestly don't remember what the reason was for it sinking. Been asking around to find out if anyone remembers why. However, a quick answer for now, given by a former tracker and maintenance Gunny, said it was more than likely a new crew who didn't put in the hull plugs. Could be something more than that for this situation, but he seems to think it was a crew error, especially since the track unit there was primarily 'provisional infantry' instead of operating tracks in that time period. So possibility of training issues that led to it. 

[panzersaurkrautwerfer]

12 hours ago, Plague2Delta said:

I honestly don't remember what the reason was for it sinking. Been asking around to find out if anyone remembers why. However, a quick answer for now, given by a former tracker and maintenance Gunny, said it was more than likely a new crew who didn't put in the hull plugs. Could be something more than that for this situation, but he seems to think it was a crew error, especially since the track unit there was primarily 'provisional infantry' instead of operating tracks in that time period. So possibility of training issues that led to it. 

One of these days folks are going to realize there's an actual cost to using non-infantry units as infantry,  

[sburke]

hopelessly optimistic

[Plague2Delta]

5 minutes ago, panzersaurkrautwerfer said:

One of these days folks are going to realize there's an actual cost to using non-infantry units as infantry,  

It is well past time that they do. Things might have changed recently for the Corps though. One can hope...

[panzersaurkrautwerfer]

2 minutes ago, Plague2Delta said:

It is well past time that they do. Things might have changed recently for the Corps though. One can hope...

Army was pretty bad for it too.  It was especially hard on Artillery/Armor units because you would have E-5/6s show up who should be able to not only do their jobs, but lead others in the doing of jobs, who hadn't touched a cannon or track in years.

And then there's that whole 11B mess.  

[Plague2Delta]

1 minute ago, panzersaurkrautwerfer said:

Army was pretty bad for it too.  It was especially hard on Artillery/Armor units because you would have E-5/6s show up who should be able to not only do their jobs, but lead others in the doing of jobs, who hadn't touched a cannon or track in years.

And then there's that whole 11B mess.  

I have heard rumblings about the Army. We had the same kind of issues with staff NCO's and MOS competency, far too many actually. Once they served their B-Billets and came back to victor units, they typically have no idea what has changed in 3 years, or forgot what they should know. Although, I am not too sure how the Army does it, Senior Staff NCO's (E-8 and up, sometimes E-7) typically come from outside the MOS. So we had career Motor T or Admin E8's and up, makes things extremely complicated since they have no idea what their units really do or understand roles or capabilities. 

 

If I may ask, what is the 11B mess? Not too privy on Army issues.

[panzersaurkrautwerfer]

11B is the infantry MOS.  It encompasses everyone who might be a rifleman of some sort.  The problem arises in that there's no special MOS for mechanized vs Stryker vs light infantry, so you'll have guys who are paratroopers E-1 through E-4, make E-5, then they PCS somewhere that's a "heavy" now they're expected to be a gunner on a Bradley or even a Squad Leader if you're a more senior dude.  It's not a show stopper, but I feel it especially hurts the mechanized infantry community given the technical nature of the job.

I'm an officer type person so a lot of the enlisted stuff is all mysterious and horrible.  But E-6/E-7s tended to have some sort of outside of branch job for a time, like recruiting, instructor/drill sergeant, some weirdo staff positions, etc, but when they left those jobs and advanced schooling at least on the combat arms side they tended to return to combat arms units.  The Cav Troop I was part of had a tanker 1SG for instance, and on the E9 side our Ops SGM was an artillery dude, or just straight up my 1SG when I was a Tank Company Commander was shockingly a tanker.  

Seems like most combat arms E-8 billets are filled by combat arms Soldiers.  

[Plague2Delta]

9 minutes ago, panzersaurkrautwerfer said:

11B is the infantry MOS.  It encompasses everyone who might be a rifleman of some sort.  The problem arises in that there's no special MOS for mechanized vs Stryker vs light infantry, so you'll have guys who are paratroopers E-1 through E-4, make E-5, then they PCS somewhere that's a "heavy" now they're expected to be a gunner on a Bradley or even a Squad Leader if you're a more senior dude.  It's not a show stopper, but I feel it especially hurts the mechanized infantry community given the technical nature of the job.

I'm an officer type person so a lot of the enlisted stuff is all mysterious and horrible.  But E-6/E-7s tended to have some sort of outside of branch job for a time, like recruiting, instructor/drill sergeant, some weirdo staff positions, etc, but when they left those jobs and advanced schooling at least on the combat arms side they tended to return to combat arms units.  The Cav Troop I was part of had a tanker 1SG for instance, and on the E9 side our Ops SGM was an artillery dude, or just straight up my 1SG when I was a Tank Company Commander was shockingly a tanker.  

Seems like most combat arms E-8 billets are filled by combat arms Soldiers.  

Oh, I see what you mean now. That makes sense, truly a mess it sounds like. I suppose I will never understand the line of thinking, bringing one specialty to another like that, luckily we didn't have much of an issue on the lower levels. If you are infantry, LAR, recon, etc. you pretty much stay there til E-7 or E-8. Not much cross over really unless you go B-Billet (ie. recruiting, then you come back anyways), or lat move and switch MOS.  Definitely different worlds then between the Army and the Corps. I am sure you are probably cognizant of some of the differences from what you pointed out, so I won't go through them all. Thank you for your service and I appreciate you taking the time to explain...The enlisted stuff being mysterious and horrible comment cracked me up lol. 

[panzersaurkrautwerfer]

I think the logic for the 11B was to diversify the infantry branch, to make mechanized guys who had more experience with dismounted operations because they'd been light before, or have paratroopers who knew how to fight alongside tanks.   They do the same thing to officers of all stripes pretty hard, I had to fight tooth and nail to stay in the Armor Brigade community when I was still on active duty because branch decided I "needed" time in a light unit.  

It's not the worst idea on paper, but I think it doesn't work nearly as well as whoever thought it up intended.  Looking at the tankers who were mounted 1996-2014 like some of my E-7/E-8s were, it was just disturbing how good they were at their jobs compared to guys who'd been "infantry" or came from outside of branch due to MOS requal with similar times in service.  Think I'd rather have a tanker superstud than someone who was more rounded.

The enlisted stuff is pretty mysterious from the officer end.  Like I'm fairly certain at least some of the promotions and jobs are based entirely on lunar phase and if cthulu has stirred this month.  The amount of backroom drug deal "I'll give you SFC Snuggles for two SSG prospects!" stuff is staggering.

And thank you for your service too.  

[Plague2Delta]

11 minutes ago, panzersaurkrautwerfer said:

I think the logic for the 11B was to diversify the infantry branch, to make mechanized guys who had more experience with dismounted operations because they'd been light before, or have paratroopers who knew how to fight alongside tanks.   They do the same thing to officers of all stripes pretty hard, I had to fight tooth and nail to stay in the Armor Brigade community when I was still on active duty because branch decided I "needed" time in a light unit.  

It's not the worst idea on paper, but I think it doesn't work nearly as well as whoever thought it up intended.  Looking at the tankers who were mounted 1996-2014 like some of my E-7/E-8s were, it was just disturbing how good they were at their jobs compared to guys who'd been "infantry" or came from outside of branch due to MOS requal with similar times in service.  Think I'd rather have a tanker superstud than someone who was more rounded.

The enlisted stuff is pretty mysterious from the officer end.  Like I'm fairly certain at least some of the promotions and jobs are based entirely on lunar phase and if cthulu has stirred this month.  The amount of backroom drug deal "I'll give you SFC Snuggles for two SSG prospects!" stuff is staggering.

And thank you for your service too.  

Yea, it makes sense on paper, but I don't see the merit in practice. Just my humble opinion, I feel the same about the Corps "every Marine is a rifleman" credo. First hand experience about how untrue that can be, but I digress. I am sure you did, I have a good friend who is an Apache pilot, he's fighting tooth and nail as well to stay flying. Also, hear the same thing from Marine officers that I know who are progressing in their careers. 

I have to totally agree. From my perspective, specialization is prized more than diversity in this scenario. As an NCO, I preferred someone who knew there role in and out, over a jack of all trades, in combat at least. Although in garrison its always nice to have whiz kids from other fields.

I can say the same about the officer world lol. When I was in I would totally agree with the mysticism of promotions that happen, or the locking out of promotions the Marines are notorious about. We had LCpl's (E-4's, including myself) as squad leaders. Unbelievable at times how hard it was to get promoted then. But, the billet caveat always works in favor of the Corps. Now the backroom dealing is something of a fine art lol. 

Thanks, I appreciate it. 

[Codename Duchess]

2 hours ago, Plague2Delta said:

 I am sure you did, I have a good friend who is an Apache pilot, he's fighting tooth and nail as well to stay flying. Also, hear the same thing from Marine officers that I know who are progressing in their careers.

This was a big reason why I ended up switching my commissioning from the South Hudson Institute of Technology and Science to a more reasonable state school and Navy program.  They told me I'd be lucky to fly once a week in the Army as an officer.  Now that I fly pointy nose things for the Global Force for Good, I get a lot more hours than that.  From what I've heard, it sounds like every aviation program that isn't the Navy's is completely illogical, and even the Navy isn't perfect.  So it doesn't surprise me that extends to the ground pounders in our sister service.

[Plague2Delta]

Makes sense, why go through everything to later not be able to actually do your job. Probably just at the time you are the most experienced and in your prime.  Pretty awesome you are a naval aviator, green with envy, and thank you for your service as well. I hold aviation in high regard, seen first hand what you can do to help out us nasty grunts on the ground. I had wanted to be a pilot, but closest I got was F/A-18 support in the Ghan and now my imagination on DCS lol. (Can't wait for DCS: F/A-18).  I have heard that about military aviation before. I could be wrong, but if I remember correctly, the Marine aviation program is all jacked up as well. That and the cannibalism for spare parts that I keep hearing about. 

[Sublime]

Thanks for your service plague.

If you wanna really see how fun cm is start playing people in pbems. Itll be hard to go back to single player. If you need opponents me or others would be happy to help.

And yes I love DCS. Ive been so torn my comp sucks so MP doesnt work well so i dont have most of the WW2 and Korea planes. The new campaign for the Korean era stuff tempted me and the F5 really tempted me. I held back. The F14 amd F18 are instant buys. Really wanna see F4 phantoms and mi24s though. And Id dig f111s or su24s or 34s. I like that side by side seating. Also id really dig the spad frm vietnam ( skyraider forget its designation) or the ov10 bronco.. anyways im rambling.

[Michael Emrys]

3 hours ago, Sublime said:

Also id really dig the spad frm vietnam ( skyraider forget its designation)

It had a slew of them going back to its inception in the last days of WW II as a torpedo bomber (TB2D, I think). In Korea it was called the AD and flew off of carriers. In Vietnam it was called the A-1 (like the steak sauce, LOL). Formally it was known as the Skyraider, but SPAD was what it got called a lot.

Michael

[Sublime]

Duh the a1 of course. I mentioned the OV10 because apparently according to warisboring.com the US military took some outta ancient storage and used them recently in the mideast..

I remember seeing the bronco at the USAF museum during one of several visits and it always struck me as a good sensible design for a COIN type aircraft. Enough ammo to do the skyraiders job but enough comms equipment to do the bird dogs job too - perhaps not as quick or hardy as a spad but definitely more than a birddog 

Edited August 16, 2016 by Sublime

[Michael Emrys]

56 minutes ago, Sublime said:

I remember seeing the bronco at the USAF museum during one of several visits and it always struck me as a good sensible design for a COIN type aircraft. Enough ammo to do the skyraiders job but enough comms equipment to do the bird dogs job too - perhaps not as quick or hardy as a spad but definitely more than a birddog 

First, let me say that I too am a big fan of the OV-10. That said, it could not nearly haul all the ordnance of the A-1. The former could carry one 500lb. bomb plus a few small rockets. the A-1 could carry up to 8,000lbs. of ordnance (in some models up to 10,000lbs.). That's about the same as a B-17 on a typical mission.

Michael

[Sublime]

Well shoot F4s could carry a few B17 loads. I think the Bronco shined more in a FO role. IIRC it had a longer loiter time and more crew...

Definitely better than what Bazooka Joe was using over France in 44 eh

Edited August 16, 2016 by Sublime

[Currahee150]

On 8/14/2016 at 4:36 PM, Codename Duchess said:

switching my commissioning from the South Hudson Institute of Technology and Science

Shh...nobody is supposed to know what that actually is. @Codename Duchess

[Plague2Delta]

17 hours ago, Sublime said:

Thanks for your service plague.

If you wanna really see how fun cm is start playing people in pbems. Itll be hard to go back to single player. If you need opponents me or others would be happy to help.

And yes I love DCS. Ive been so torn my comp sucks so MP doesnt work well so i dont have most of the WW2 and Korea planes. The new campaign for the Korean era stuff tempted me and the F5 really tempted me. I held back. The F14 amd F18 are instant buys. Really wanna see F4 phantoms and mi24s though. And Id dig f111s or su24s or 34s. I like that side by side seating. Also id really dig the spad frm vietnam ( skyraider forget its designation) or the ov10 bronco.. anyways im rambling.

Thank you, I appreciate that.

I will have to look into that at some point. I have only had CMFI, CMBN, and CMBS for a few months now. So, still learning how it all works in regards to armor (I am a simple grunt with very limited experience with armor). I can say though, I love the infantry side of the games, and one of my favorite things is the 60mm mortar from the handheld, just awesome that it capable of being used like that in game. Often find myself playing PLT-Co. level infantry vs. infantry battle across the titles that I own. I love it. Usually after a few hours of play, I realize how much I get into the game. Once I feel comfortable enough, I will definitely get into PBEM.

DCS rocks. I have a lot of the modules: F-86 is one of my favorites, Mig-15 is nice but not a huge fan, Mig-21 is fun but frustrating for me, I like the A-10C alot, Huey is awesome but I am terrible with rotor wing lol. I have the Kurfurst and it is pretty awesome. At some point I want to get the Dora, when money permits and of course, being a Devil Dog the Corsair will be a first day buy as well. I just picked up the M-2000C and absolutely fell in love with it, it is incredible. Just wish I was better with the weaponry armament since I often find it is hard as hell to utilize (losing lock etc.) and I get the role of the M-2000C but I wish the French would have added 2 more pylons or at least doubled up a missile rack. Oh yes, F-14 and F/A-18, first day buys, they can take my cash as soon as I can give it for them! I have to be honest, with the M-2000C, I didn't see the need for an F-5 in my hangar. Just like I have the Hawk (which is a lot of fun to fly) and the L-39, I don't see the need for the C-101.

I second your thoughts on F-4's and F-111's. Also, I would take a A-1 Skyraider as well, just an incredible machine. 

[Codename Duchess]

3 hours ago, Currahee150 said:

Shh...nobody is supposed to know what that actually is. @Codename Duchess

How's the cow?

[Currahee150]

*runs and finds knowledge book*

"She walks she talks she full chalk, the lacteal fluid extracted from the female of the bovine species is highly prolific to the nth degree."

That's lowly plebe knowledge anyway. @Codename Duchess

Edited August 16, 2016 by Currahee150

[Codename Duchess]

1 minute ago, Currahee150 said:

*runs and finds knowledge book*

"She walks she talks she full chalk, the lacteal fluid extracted from the female of the bovine species is highly prolific to the nth degree."

That's lowly plebe knowledge anyway. @Codename Duchess

Big bites for you!

[Michael Emrys]

4 hours ago, Sublime said:

I think the Bronco shined more in a FO role.

Exactly. BTW, I have a little story about the Bronc. In the late '50s and early '60s my cousin who was a civilian employee of the AF at the local base, used to take me to the open house on Armed Forces Day each year. So one year, must have been early '60s, they had an early version of the Bronc there, not just to walk around, but also giving a flying demonstration. In those days it was being touted as the prototype for a light, short field transport. Anyway, they fired it up and it took off. Two things about it struck me. One was how quiet it was. And I do mean quiet. Even wound up for takeoff it didn't make much more noise than an electric fan. That impressed me. It must have been great for sneaking up on targets to mark them for the big boys. The second thing was that the takeoff run was not much longer than the width of the runway. From a standing start, it just jumped into the air. Of course the one I saw was not loaded and probably had a light fuel load. Anyway, after that it sort of dropped off my radar for a couple of decades and I wondered what had become of it. Finally, I began to catch up with word of this hot dog observation craft that had been used in Vietnam, and I went, "Hey, wait a minute, don't I know that airplane?"

Michael

Edited August 16, 2016 by Michael Emrys