FIST Vehicles

[TheForwardObserver]

The quality of the firing battery affects the call for fire time, as Kino has mentioned.  With everything set to elite, your FOs and FISTs and COLTs should get 1-2 or 3 minute call times. Most of the time, these times will be slashed to 1-2 minutes after your first call for support from a particular battery or platoon.  For example; You use a platoon showing a 2 minute time for a pre-planned 1 round Excalibur mission, on the opening barrage.  You should see that time diminish to 1 minute after that initial mission is fired.  I would imagine this simulates having the direct attention of that particular firing unit. 

Some other handy in-game fire support stuff;

-From what I have found M-777 howitzers are only brought down to 1 minute support time when they are directly attached to your formation, as in a light infantry Task Force.  You will see the matchup level indicator light improve to max.  M-777s are more expensive than Paladins and *carry more ammo* however they don't shoot as tightly as the Paladin when using unguided munitions, so you'll need it.  Stangely they seem to rate better effects against armor when using precision, despite firing the same Excalibur round.    

-Paladins are easily brought down to 1 minute, even if they aren't attached in direct support as in a Task Force, as long as the Observer and Battery are elite.  Sometimes is won't be reflected till after the Battery has taken at least 1 call for fire.  

-If you want first round fire for effects every time without adjusting, like a properly trained and experienced FO, consider buying dozens of TRPs and laying them out in a grid across the entire battlefield.  Not only will your fires be accurate, fast and first round FFE but you will be able to target battlefield locations not under immediate observation, lodging yourself into your opponent's decision making cycle through deception, REMF harassment and persistent terrain denial fires.  The presence of these "gamey" items actually makes the Artillery less gamey, as first round FFE is the primary goal of all modern artillery units.

-If you notice enemy vehicles moving away from your Arty at *just* the right moment, it is because your Observer is carrying an LLDR which is tripping the enemy's laser warning and possibly smoke.  To avoid this you can use the FOs from the line platoons, as they only carry Binos. 

-You may notice in all sorts of conditions your FOs and FISTs can't see as well as their infantry companions due to a lack of proper optics, thermals, etc.  This can be fixed by equipping the Observer team with a Javelin, which provides superior spotting, you will instantly notice the difference.  Just don't provide them Ammo, or keep their target arc short, so they don't let one fly and give away their position.  

 

 

[Jammersix]

I tried to buy and distribute TRPs as the attacker in an assault, the game wouldn't let me lay them outside my setup area.

[TheForwardObserver]

10 minutes ago, Jammersix said:

I tried to buy and distribute TRPs as the attacker in an assault, the game wouldn't let me lay them outside my setup area.

Did you have any other types of defensive items, such as foxholes, or mines, etc?  They all blend in together but TRPs should be placeable anywhere, where as those other defensive works can only be placed on your zone. 

Edited April 23, 2016 by TheForwardObserver

[Kinophile]

1 hour ago, TheForwardObserver said:

Did you have any other types of defensive items, such as foxholes, or mines, etc?  They all blend in together but TRPs should be placeable anywhere, where as those other defensive works can only be placed on your zone. 

Yah I doubt this also. Every QB game I've ever played, I've been able to lay TRPs beyond my setup zone. 

Generally I buy 10-15 TRPs.  I allocate first to my objectives,  then dominating terrain nearby,  then approach choke points. 

TFO,  good to know that the second call gets a quicker RT. It would make sense then to initially call a small,  short fire to give that extra reduction to follow-on fires.

[Jammersix]

I just tried it, and you guys are right, at least in an assault, as the attacker, I can set up TRPs anywhere.

[Sublime]

Well i dont know kino. Trps arent affected. Nor is say foxholes or barbed wire as far as experience.

Trps are placeable by attacker and defender anywhere anytime. The only time theyre generally not realistic is a meeting engagement. Attackers and defenders routinely had and have concentration spots to call fires on. And the assault setting presupposes a build up and almost say set piece level attack on enemy positions that are known.

Edited April 24, 2016 by Sublime

[Jammersix]

I just used TRPs, an Armored Knight, two FOs, a TACP and a FIST to kill the computer without every sending a ground attack.

I bought a combined arms task force, took one of the armored teams, the HHC, battalion, and 2 batteries of 155s in platoons, two Strike Eagles and two Guardian AT Apaches. An extra Raven and two Shadows.

Step one, conduct precision 155 strikes, three rounds at a time, on all visible armor until 155 precision ammo is exhausted. Enemy armor turns out to be T72s. Not fair.

Step two, since no one is shooting at the Shadows, I conclude that the computer has no AA. Send in one Strike Eagle to test the theory. After two strikes without drawing fire, cancel the mission and send in all four aircraft.

Step three, wait patiently while Apaches and Strike Eagles decimate everything that looks red.

Step four, run one short line of 155 AP on the largest concentration of visible infantry.

Step five, oh, wait, there is no step five, because the computer surrendered.

I never moved my task force, elite FOs, TRPs, and Apaches for the win.

 

[Sublime]

This is why its always better imo and more satisfying to play people. 

The AI cannot fire on suspected or even positions that you lose LOS to live enemy trooops but know theyre in there still. No area fire. No reaction to your plan. Say you fought a human. They wouldnt have idly sat by and gotten decinated they would have been rolling around T72s to make arty strikes harder and probably attacked into you rather than get chopped up by supporting fires.

Ive played you before and its not to say you wouldnt have won anyways for this battle but you wouldnt have gotten away half as easy.

(Btw you were screwed in our during action report games. Just sayin)

[Jammersix]

Hush, now, or I'll load the Bradleys and invade your silly ass.

[gnarly]

BRADLEY!!!!

[Sublime]

I dont needa say anything its all public record on the forum

Edited May 2, 2016 by Sublime

[Kinophile]

On 24/04/2016 at 8:09 AM, Sublime said:

 The only time theyre generally not realistic is a meeting engagement. 

Edited May 2, 2016 by kinophile

[Kinophile]

I'm designing a meeting engagement scenario. I have the UKR forces further out from the  target town,  but they get TRPs as they performed a steady measured advance. The idea is that the RUS/Separatists rushed forward,  essentially outpacing their Arty.  They get a drone but no Arty until 40 mins in (and then it's a LOT). 

@TheForwardObserver Is this realistic? Or Are TRPs very time intensive to set up?

Essentially I want to make up for the UKR lack of drones (the map has short LOSs) 

 

Edited May 2, 2016 by kinophile

[TheForwardObserver]

10 minutes ago, kinophile said:

I'm designing a meeting engagement scenario. I have the UKR forces further out from the  target town,  but they get TRPs. The idea is that the RUS/Separatists rushed forward,  essentially outpacing their Arty.  They get a drone but no Arty until 40 mins in ( and then it's a LOT). 

@TheForwardObserver Is this realistic? Or Are TRPs very time intensive to set up?

 

Not time consuming at all.  If the attached Fire Support Personnel are properly trained, and their maneuver counterparts haven't tasked them out for jobs they should be handling themselves (ie more manpower), then your fire support personnel should literally have 'nothing' to do but *prepare for the moment* the Arty is needed. 

[Sublime]

Kino - if you.re saying that its realistic for the forces represented in CM to have 5 or more TRPs in an area the size of most CM maps Id disagree. I guess if youre having fire support personnel assign trps to likely battle or ambush points sure.  But how many in what concentration are you going to get on said units entire movement route? A meeting engagement is supposed to represent two forces blundering into eachother. A probe is more where forces make a limited penetration into an area expecting trouble but not sure where it is, a situation Id think you.d get more "guess" trps vs "known" trps e.g. known enemy sites or previous favorite areas of concentration, or points requested or deemed to need one.

Edited May 3, 2016 by Sublime

[TheForwardObserver]

@Sublime  It's tough to assert whether it'd be realistic or not; Yes the assumption with meeting engagements is that they've occurred with limited pre-planning, however; In-game TRPs absolve the player of the burden of spotting rounds, and permits the persistent firing of un-observed terrain-denial missions.  In real life, spotting rounds are only used in the Adjustment of Fire.  The Adjustment of Fire is only used when the Observer can't transmit the proper location of the enemy, lacks the equipment or training to be confident of his target location data, or the firing battery has not recently registered or remedied their cumulative firing error data.  Most of the adjust fire missions you will see in real life will be requested by Scouts or Infantry in the absence of a properly trained FO.  Scouts to their credit are often effective, well equipped and eager observers (little "o") but have far too many details to consider in their primary functions to be burdened by the 'nuances' of artillery.  Infantry will exclusively use basic Adjust Fire missions because there is only so much we can explain to them through finger paintings and interpretive dance routines.

You're right in the sense that use of TRPs imply a perhaps un-realistic level of preparation for a particular engagement in-game, but I don't know that the mechanics of TRPs in-game necessarily provide the level of support you would achieve with *actual* preparation either, as opposed to just good timely and effective modern fire support.


 

[Jammersix]

Officers. None of them understand the Drunken Naked Boom-Boom Boogie, Waddle and Roll, and how much information can be transmitted with it across cultural, language, light, noise and sobriety barriers.

A Real Infantry Sergeant can dance his way into the panties of women on any continent.

On the other hand, signal a forward observer to get down, repeat the signal twice, and he'll stand up, spread his hands, palms up, and scream "what?"

Edited May 3, 2016 by Jammersix

[TheForwardObserver]

@Jammersix Not true.  I've known some of the greatest infantrymen on the planet, and not a single one can dance.  As for culture, it's true the infantry have a culture of their own-- one steeped in honor, sacrifice, and shrouded in mystery.  And mysterious it shall remain, so long as the infantry insists upon documenting their exploits in crayon, and lacing their speech with more slang than a yorkshire pub rat.

[Kinophile]

My favourite put-down on set is something similar -  "I have neither the time nor the crayons to explain this to you, just go stop those brainiacs doing that stupid crap."

@Sublime, I'm not convinced all ME's are just two forces bumping into each other. I feel sometimes that it's an advance to contact,  adjust advance,  attack.

Less "Who dat! ? Who dat?! Blamblamblam!!"  and more Contact Right! Fire and Keep moving!. 

My WIP scenario works off the idea of two forces deliberately manoeuvring into each other, rather than accidentally contacting. But Not a set piece attack or assault either...

 

[Sublime]

Well of course it can be whatever you want. Though the description of forces moving to contact fits exactly what the idea of what a probe is.  A good example is reading the few historical MEs in game. (Obv not BS) theyre all accidental or coincidence - like IIRC BNs The Mace has the Polish and SS per chance attacking through the same spot.

Again its your game though so do whatever you wish to with it. I just like a good debate.

 

Part of my problem with game TRPs and their use in MEs is they also confer a firing bonus on units of the same side firing near it. To simulate units having particular features zeroed in for ambush etc. That doesnt really fit with an ME at all and is iffy on an attack even though it could be explained away by saying soldiers were told it was highly likely X spot contained enemy personnel.

[Jammersix]

10 hours ago, TheForwardObserver said:

@Jammersix Not true.  I've known some of the greatest infantrymen on the planet, and not a single one can dance.

The secret to dancing is twenties. Any Infantryman knows that when you start dancing and throwing twenties around, panties hit the floor.

[TheForwardObserver]

@Jammersix I don't know what twenties are, but I know if what you say is true the Infantry should learn to keep their panties on!  Nothing professional about a cluster of croppy floppin' hooligans dropping their knickers and dancing like they're hopped up on more acid than a mechanized battalion of volkswagen vans laying siege to woodstock.

Edited May 3, 2016 by TheForwardObserver

[Jammersix]

That just sounds like you saw some of the boys getting in touch with their Inner Warrior... It's nothing to worry about. We have E-3s to handle the explosives, and we enforce strict limits on how much they drink.

The reason the FIST was invented was so artillery officers could keep up on patrols. For the first FIST, we took an M113, stuck a mirror inside at the front, dropped the ramp, tapped the FO on the shoulder, pointed inside and said "look! Very shiny!"

"Okay, he's in, close her up and let's go."

What's a yorkshire pub rat? Is it like Yorkshire Pudding? I liked Yorkshire Pudding.

Edited May 4, 2016 by Jammersix

[TheForwardObserver]

@Jammersix I do like a good yorkshire pudding.  Doesn't hit the spot quite like real English food, you know like tika masala and a basket of naan.

[Jammersix]

P.S.:

Infantrymen dancing: 

Officers dancing: