How to "Hunt" in CMx2?

[Chibot Mk IX]

As a 12 years CM player, I spent most of my time play CMBB. I began to play CMSF 3 years ago, and CMRT last year. The new CM engine is awesome, but I don't get the new "Hunt" command. in CM1, Hunt means your tanks will go to the destination at slow speed, stop when they find the target, engaging, will keep moving after the target be neutralized.

In CM2, Hunt will make your tanks stop when they found something suspicious. But they will stop there forever, even after the target be neutralized. So the new "Hunt" is similar to "Contact" order in CM1?  Can you guys share your experience on how to use "Hunt" order?

 

Thx

[womble]

"...how to use the Hunt order?"

Very judiciously.

Target Arcs help. A Hunting element will not stop if it spots targets that are excluded from being engaged by any Target Arc it's operating under. So if you give an anti-armour asset a Target Armour Arc, it won't halt if it just spots some infantry. If you give a segment shaped TA, it won't stop if it spots an enemy outside its assigned sector. Incoming fire from pretty much any source will still trigger the halt, though.

If you're playing WeGo, it's worth limiting the use of Hunt to the latter portions of the turn; you don't want your asset to get spooked out in the open somewhere at the beginning of the turn, to stay exposed and static for most of a minute, if you can help it.

Hunt is a poor way of seeking out enemies. It's better for fine-tuning your ambushes on enemies you've already got well located.

It's worth noting that a halt caused by a Hunt order will also cancel any subsequent movement legs you've plotted.

On the whole, I think it's largely a matter of not expecting one tank to do too much in the space of one turn. I'd say plan to end the turn having Hunted to the first point at which you will be able to target an already-identified contact and fired one or maybe two salvoes, so you can assess the situation in the orders phase. Takes a little experience in maneuvering the thing you're using, but can be very effective.

[George MC]

I must admit I now use my armour far more cautiously in that I move small 'packets' (at least a pair, often a platoon - although depends on terrain TBH) from cover to cover with lot's of overwatch from other units (tanks preferably). I'd agree with the comments @womble made that if you are using the above then use the timings to ensure it all happens at the tail end of the turn.

There is a lot to be said in this game for sitting and watching. With no borg spotting you need contacts to be radioed along the unit so the info is shared. This can take a few moments. So take your time.

I've also dismounted a tank crew platoon HQ and snuk em in cover to a good observation point. Anything they spot once they get back in the AFV means they share this info. Once all units have an idea enemy are lurking at a specific locale (based on intel received from their scouting platoon HQ) then they are more 'tuned' in to spotting them as and when they move out.

[kevinkin]

That HQ tactic is very realistic BTW and one of those subtle things about CM we so enjoy.

Kevin

[A Canadian Cat]

Yes, the current hunt command is like the old move to contact command.  At first I missed it too but not any more.  One thing I have learned is that if you have a unit that moves forward in uncertain ground you want them to stop.  You do not want them to keep going once they neutralize the contact that they made.  OK what I really mean is you want to be part of the decision of if they should continue.  The vast majority of the time, in my experience, that you make contact the right thing to do is stop and think about how to deal with it.

 

7 hours ago, womble said:

"...how to use the Hunt order?"

Very judiciously.

Yes, but often.

 

7 hours ago, womble said:

Target Arcs help. A Hunting element will not stop if it spots targets that are excluded from being engaged by any Target Arc it's operating under. So if you give an anti-armour asset a Target Armour Arc, it won't halt if it just spots some infantry. If you give a segment shaped TA, it won't stop if it spots an enemy outside its assigned sector. Incoming fire from pretty much any source will still trigger the halt, though.

This is *not* something I do. Typically I use target arcs when I do not want my units to fire.  In other words I use it to keep them from firing on far away targets and keep them focused on spotting and personal defence.  The trouble with arcs is your units will not fire on things that are outside of the arc.  Many times my perfectly setup arcs were the death of my units because something popped up just to the left or just out side and my unit ignored them - as instructed.  Sigh.  So arcs are used to prevent my guys from firing in the normal course of events with three exceptions:

1) immobilized tanks - it is the only way to get them to face a different way.  Still I do this very carefully and usually in nearly 180 degree arcs that extend past the map.

2) moving tanks when one flank is safe and one is not certain - again nearly 180 degree arcs that extend past the map

3) AT teams or other assets I want to focus on AT work.  For tanks and AT guns they get a circular arc that covers the entire map, for infantry AT teams they get a circular arc that extends to their good range - not their max range.

 

7 hours ago, womble said:

If you're playing WeGo, it's worth limiting the use of Hunt to the latter portions of the turn; you don't want your asset to get spooked out in the open somewhere at the beginning of the turn, to stay exposed and static for most of a minute, if you can help it.

Hunt is a poor way of seeking out enemies. It's better for fine-tuning your ambushes on enemies you've already got well located.

It's worth noting that a halt caused by a Hunt order will also cancel any subsequent movement legs you've plotted.

On the whole, I think it's largely a matter of not expecting one tank to do too much in the space of one turn. I'd say plan to end the turn having Hunted to the first point at which you will be able to target an already-identified contact and fired one or maybe two salvoes, so you can assess the situation in the orders phase. Takes a little experience in maneuvering the thing you're using, but can be very effective.

Now all that I agree with.

[Blazing 88's]

17 hours ago, kevinkin said:

That HQ tactic is very realistic BTW and one of those subtle things about CM we so enjoy.

Kevin

Wittmann and many other Panzer Aces did it whenever they could.

[womble]

On 4/7/2016 at 7:46 AM, womble said:

If you give a segment shaped TA, it won't stop if it spots an enemy outside its assigned sector.

 

18 hours ago, IanL said:

This is *not* something I do...The trouble with arcs is your units will not fire on things that are outside of the arc.  Many times my perfectly setup arcs were the death of my units because something popped up just to the left or just out side and my unit ignored them - as instructed.  Sigh. 

I'm guessing what I've bolded in my self-quotation is the major component of your divergence. It's not a very big divergence, though, since that particular use, and I should probably have said explicitly, is relatively infrequent. Using the restricted area of a TA (rather than the eminently sensible, if desperately unsightly "whole map" ATA), is something to consider very carefully before undertaking. I'd use maybe it for completeness' sake if I was sneaking into a keyhole position to fire on a tank target through a slot between buildings, for example, where I knew that there were no other targets available, and that the target was unlikely to be able to move out of the arc and become a reciprocal threat, or even remain visible. On consideration, it's very rarely optimal, as part of a Hunt-into-surprise setup. 

[A Canadian Cat]

Makes sense.  My main point is for people to be aware of what they mean and the potential downsides so they are not surprised later.  Thanks for the more detail.