Using mortars

[Tarkus]

Hello gentlemen, 

Currently playing CMBN and I have a question about using on-map mortars, just to make sure I am not trying to do something that just isn't feasible in the game. I'd be glad if anyone of you could let me know if I'm missing something here or incorrectly interpret what can or can't be done. 

So I have this mortar section deployed behind a tall bocage. The HQ is up forward, looking at an open field up ahead, while its three 60mm mortar teams are slightly behind, deployed, ready to fire, and in full contact with the HQ, but WITHOUT LOS on the field. I want to deliver mortar fire at the other end of the field. 

I was assuming all along that I would be able to deliver fire from my three mortars using the HQ as a direct spotter, as if the LOS of that HQ would extend to its mortars. I seem to recall this being feasible in CMx1. 

Right now, my reading of the situation is that I cannot do that, and that I have two ways of using mortars: 

1. Direct fire with the mortar having a clear LOS on its target.
2. Indirect fire being spotted and called through the arty interface.

There are a number of issues with the second options:

1. Unless I'm missing something, HQ can only spot for ONE of its THREE organic on-map mortar (I think I could get the three gun as a battery were they off-map) as each gun is treated individually in the arty interface. 
2. To my surprise, going this way resulted in a 5 minutes delivery time, which seems exceedingly long considering the HQ is actually about 20 meters away directing the fire of its own gun.  

I'm just through reading Eugene Sledge memoirs where there are plenty of occurences of the mortar section leader directing fire of its mortars teams, acting as a direct spotter, and doing it pretty quickly as well. 

So my question is whether I am doing this wrong somehow or if directing mortar fire from in-contact HQ à la CMx1 just can't be done. 

TIA  

Edited October 16, 2015 by Tarkus

[Bulletpoint]

You are correct, the only way you can do that is to go through the artillery interface.

But you can fire all the mortars at the same time, either by dialing in three separate fire missions (if you are on engine version 2.xx), or by doing a multi battery barrage (if you are on version 3.xx)

[Tarkus]

You are correct, the only way you can do that is to go through the artillery interface.

But you can fire all the mortars at the same time, either by dialing in three separate fire missions (if you are on engine version 2.xx), or by doing a multi battery barrage (if you are on version 3.xx)

Thanks Bulletpoint.

In regard to simultaneous fire, I assume I need *three* different spotters to direct the fire of those three mortars? I think I'll rather bring them up for direct fire.

I am looking at my 3.01 manual right now and haven't located the multi-battery barrage you mention (unless you refer to setup phase fire missions planning). I only see this one note that states that a spotter can only direct one support request/mission at a time. Can someone possibly elaborate on this?

Thanks again

[Bulletpoint]

Thanks Bulletpoint.

In regard to simultaneous fire, I assume I need *three* different spotters to direct the fire of those three mortars? I think I'll rather bring them up for direct fire.

I am looking at my 3.01 manual right now and haven't located the multi-battery barrage you mention (unless you refer to setup phase fire missions planning). I only see this one note that states that a spotter can only direct one support request/mission at a time. Can someone possibly elaborate on this?

Thanks again

When you do a fire mission, you can hold SHIFT and click on several artillery pieces to select them. Then the spotter will do one fire mission, but with all three mortars (in your case). Each will have its own cycle of spotting rounds, so they won't always come in at the same time.

Edited October 17, 2015 by Bulletpoint

[Tarkus]

Awesome! I missed this in the manual but it is indeed explained as you mention. Thanks!

JV

[womble]

Variable times for arty support calls depending on tightness of command integration would be a good thing to add. As you say, and has been pointed out before, a spotter with voice links to the firing asset shouldn't have to wait as long for spotting rounds to start as one who has to get through to battery. I think it's potentially true that longer, heavier bombardments should take longer to set up than a short or a light fireweight mission, since for a high RoF expenditure, there's not enough time to set fuses/propellant charges as each shell goes into the breech, so they get pre-prepped, ready to fire before FFE is called.

[Bulletpoint]

I think it's potentially true that longer, heavier bombardments should take longer to set up than a short or a light fireweight mission, since for a high RoF expenditure, there's not enough time to set fuses/propellant charges as each shell goes into the breech, so they get pre-prepped, ready to fire before FFE is called.

I think this is a very good idea. It would also be good for gameplay, as you would then have to weigh up call times vs firing intensity. Right now, there's no real reason to choose medium firing speed.

Because either you want to destroy the target, and then it's better to fire fast (to hit them with as much as possible before they duck down, and to get the whole barrage over with as fast as possible to move on), or you want to fire slow to conserve ammo and be able to shift fire as you go.

[Bulletpoint]

Awesome! I missed this in the manual but it is indeed explained as you mention. Thanks!

JV

You're welcome, happy to help

[Pak40]

Tarkus, I wholeheartedly agree that a 5 minute wait for this type of barrage is beyond ridiculous. If mortars are within shouting distance of their spotter then it should be a fraction of that time. There's no need to establish communications and no need to go through command hierarchy and no dealing with finicky radio transmissions -  so why on earth does it take 5 minutes for this type of barrage?

I almost always use 60mm in direct fire for this reason.  

[Badger73]

Variable times for arty support calls depending on tightness of command integration would be a good thing to add. As you say, and has been pointed out before, a spotter with voice links to the firing asset shouldn't have to wait as long for spotting rounds to start as one who has to get through to battery. I think it's potentially true that longer, heavier bombardments should take longer to set up than a short or a light fireweight mission, since for a high RoF expenditure, there's not enough time to set fuses/propellant charges as each shell goes into the breech, so they get pre-prepped, ready to fire before FFE is called.

@Womble and @Pak40,

Help me understand why you think the process between a voice spotter and radio spotter should differ in duration?  In each case the battery does not see the target.  A Fire Director (Fire Direction Center) must plot the trajectory, then calculate deflection, elevation, and charge.  After which a single gun crew must correctly apply those calculations to the tubes and mortar rounds.  The "shooters" are always blind in both cases.  The spotter calls for adjustments which the FDC recalculates and communicates for each subsequent round until hitting the target.  "Target.  Fire for Effect" requires the remaining battery guns/tubes to apply the successful deflection and elevation for those sights and set the correct charge on all the rounds to fire.  It's the same procedure whether initiated by voice, telephone, or radio.

[Pak40]

It's a similar process but as I said in my previous post, you don't have to deal with:

1. Establishing radio contact 

2. Command Hierarchy

3. Crappy radios with often very bad reception and possibly lots of traffic on the net.

All three of these things take time and are abstracted within CMBN when going through the artillery panel.

With a spotter within shouting distance, often within just a few meters of the mortar crews, he can simply shout the direction and distance to the crews directly. There is no Fire Direction Center and they don't have to plot the trajectory. Well trained mortar crews knew the distances by heart, and could quickly set the direction, distance, and charges required. Sure, they'd still have to do the spotting rounds but my concern is from the time the order is given to the first spotting round - they should be able to shave off a couple of minutes of time at least. 

[A Canadian Cat]

I like @womble's suggestion of allowing for shorter times in these situations too.

I almost always use 60mm in direct fire for this reason.  

Same, actually I have a personal rule now that says all 60mm mortar fire must be direct .