DarkFib3r Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 I know the answer to my question relies in part on the tactical situation as well as the specifics of each weapon, but if you were to have a rough rule of thumb, what would be the acceptable range to open up with various weapons? Here are some of my thoughts: 30m or less for grenades 100m or less for submachine guns 200m or less for rifles 200m or less for anti-tank rockets 200m or less for sniper rifles 400m or less for squad automatic weapons (e.g. BARs) 600m or less for heavy MGs As far as you can see with mortars Please let me know if you think my ranging estimates are off and what you think they should be. Ideally, you should be able to score kills at these ranges. At the very least, you should be able to supress your target at these ranges. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 Since you have no control over what range your grenades will open up at ('less you put your Target Arc really short, which might be a bit risky), a range for grenades is a bit nugatory. I generally expect rifles to get hits, and semi-auto rifles to be able to generate some suppression at about 300m ATRockets like Shreck and Zook, I restrict to 100m or less; shooting at greater ranges than that is "Hail Mary" territory, and a waste of ammo. Most Panzerfaust can't even reach more than 30m. Sniper rifles can be effective out to 600m. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletpoint Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 My rule of thumb for machineguns is half of maximum range. So for a mounted MG with 2000 metres maximum distance: 1000 metres, and the smaller ones: 500 metres. Rifles will fire on their own at less than about 300 metres, so I guess that's their maximum distance to engage a target. 60mm mortars have a max range of 1600m and become really inaccurate at the long end of that. Combined with the small blast radius, that means very weak effect against a point target at that range. I couldn't knock out a 88mm gun in woods even with 80 rounds from a 60mm mortar with clear line of sight, at max range. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkFib3r Posted June 8, 2015 Author Share Posted June 8, 2015 (edited) Sniper rifles can be effective out to 600m. I have never found the sniper rifles effective at any significant range, certainly not at 600m. It could be the quality of my troops or the cover or concealment of my target, but I found that the sniper rifles were relatively inaccurate at any sort of long range. My "marksman" sometimes fires 12-15 times before getting a hit, if ever. Perhaps Tom Berenger has unrealistically conditioned me with a "one shot, one kill" mentality ;-) Thanks for the helpful reply! Edited June 8, 2015 by DarkFib3r 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkFib3r Posted June 8, 2015 Author Share Posted June 8, 2015 (edited) My rule of thumb for machineguns is half of maximum range... ...60mm mortars have a max range of 1600m and become really inaccurate at the long end of that... Excellent idea about the 50% max range - I'll take a closer look at the max ranges for the different weapons. And great point about the inaccuracies of mortars at longer ranges: I'll revise my expectations to 800-1000m for direct fire mortars. Edited June 8, 2015 by DarkFib3r 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pak40 Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 (edited) I have never found the sniper rifles effective at any significant range, certainly not at 600m. It could be the quality of my troops or the cover or concealment of my target, but I found that the sniper rifles were relatively inaccurate at any sort of long range. My "marksman" sometimes fires 12-15 times before getting a hit, if ever. Perhaps Tom Berenger has unrealistically conditioned me with a "one shot, one kill" mentality ;-) Thanks for the helpful reply! This really has to do with the amount of suppression that the sniper is receiving. I've run tests where an unsuppressed veteran sniper hit running infantry in the open 9/10 times (250m-125m). Then I ran the same tests where the running infantry had 2-3 supporting squads to suppress the sniper. Accuracy got down to 1/10. Edited June 8, 2015 by Pak40 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkFib3r Posted June 8, 2015 Author Share Posted June 8, 2015 ...I've run tests where an unsuppressed veteran sniper hit running infantry in the open 9/10 times (250m-125m)... I am interested in womble's 600m range comment as my own experience has been that snipers have trouble scoring kills at longer ranges (>200m), even when unsupressed. Your comment states that the effective range is contingent on the sniper being unsupressed and your test was at a range of 250m. Assuming that they are unsupressed, would you say that an effective sniper range - where you can start getting kills - rule of thumb is 300m or less? I need to play around with snipers some more, but at this point they are not the long range (400-600m) killers that I would have expected them to be. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 I am interested in womble's 600m range comment as my own experience has been that snipers have trouble scoring kills at longer ranges (>200m), even when unsupressed. Your comment states that the effective range is contingent on the sniper being unsupressed and your test was at a range of 250m. Assuming that they are unsupressed, would you say that an effective sniper range - where you can start getting kills - rule of thumb is 300m or less? I need to play around with snipers some more, but at this point they are not the long range (400-600m) killers that I would have expected them to be. I've had test situations where "Marksmen" (not even sniper teams, organic scoped rifles) have taken out entire ATG crews without me (the owning player of the marksman) noticing for the time it took... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkFib3r Posted June 8, 2015 Author Share Posted June 8, 2015 I've had test situations where "Marksmen" (not even sniper teams, organic scoped rifles) have taken out entire ATG crews without me (the owning player of the marksman) noticing for the time it took... It's always nice when your teams do an awesome job without you having to manage them! Do you recall the range? Again, I am simply looking for a sniper range rule of thumb when using these assets. While I want the range to be 600m, based on some of the feedback so far, I am thinking that 300m or less is where you can start expecting acceptable performance from these teams. If your marksmen took out the ATG at 600m, it will get me to seriously reconsider the 300m estimate. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletpoint Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 (edited) Part of the reason why snipers are less effective than they could be is that they aim for the centre of the enemy soldier. Right now I'm playing a game where my marksman team is plugging away at an enemy at 91 metres distance and would have hit him square in the chest every single time - unfortunately he's behind a low wall that blocks every shot. I kept shooting for several minutes, until the enemy soldier noticed my marksman and killed him after a few shots. Seems a regular soldier with a rifle is more deadly in a rifle duel than a marksman, I think this is actually because he is LESS accurate, so that there's a better chance for one of his bullets to deviate and go over the wall. Edited June 8, 2015 by Bulletpoint 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 It's always nice when your teams do an awesome job without you having to manage them! Do you recall the range? Again, I am simply looking for a sniper range rule of thumb when using these assets. While I want the range to be 600m, based on some of the feedback so far, I am thinking that 300m or less is where you can start expecting acceptable performance from these teams. If your marksmen took out the ATG at 600m, it will get me to seriously reconsider the 300m estimate. It was somewhere between 500 and 600m. I was checking something else, and didn't realise any of the infantry squads had LOS to a target... The ATG never spotted the origin of the incoming, and it's possible some of the casualties were trying to buddy aid the already-fallen. Other than that one time, though, even with elite +2 specialist sniper teams, I've not had as-good results at any range, and I generally stick a couple of snake-eaters into any QB loadout. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocketman Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 How about rifle grenades - they don't seem to go very far. Effective range vs. armored target? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletpoint Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 How about rifle grenades - they don't seem to go very far. Effective range vs. armored target? Armoured targets? Close hits rarely kill even running infantry in the open. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 Each element that has rifle grenades seems to have one HEAT round. The things are horribly inaccurate, whether AT or AP, though, and if you get a hit with one, you're lucky, multiply so if you get a hit with the HEAT on an armoured target, since that round seems to get used first in the general "volleying at extreme range" the grenadiers will engage in if you don't curb their enthusiasm. The greatest challenge is to get the grenadiers not to pop them off willy-nilly, which requires a "Target Light" command be applied at all times (or a TA that won't cover any possible enemy contact). I wouldn't, by choice, have the RG guys let loose any further away than 50m, and even then it's a plain fluke if they hit anything useful. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
umlaut Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 Regarding antitank rockets, I´d say that 200 m is way too far: I never use them at ranges larger than 100 m and I usually give the antitank teams "cover armor" arcs of about 50 m. In my experience, ranges greater than 50 m are often a waste of rockets. Not to mention suicidal, as the targeted tank will often spot the antitank team after the first round and kill them before they reload. Wikipedia states that Panzerschrecks have an effective range of 150 m. About the bazooka, there´s this Patton quote: "the purpose of the bazooka is not to hunt tanks offensively, but to be used as a last resort in keeping tanks from overrunning infantry. To insure this, the range should be held to around 30 yards." And when it comes to Panzerfausts, their effictive range is supposed to be 60 m - according to wikipedia. I think I have heard that 30 m was the actual limit for them too. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pak40 Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 (edited) It's always nice when your teams do an awesome job without you having to manage them! Do you recall the range? Again, I am simply looking for a sniper range rule of thumb when using these assets. While I want the range to be 600m, based on some of the feedback so far, I am thinking that 300m or less is where you can start expecting acceptable performance from these teams. If your marksmen took out the ATG at 600m, it will get me to seriously reconsider the 300m estimate. An unseen sniper will probably be able to get off 1-2 shots but sometimes more before being seen and getting return fire. My tests conclude that you'll have about a 90% chance to hit a running target @250m (towards the sniper) while there is no return fire. If the target is behind a hedgerow, in a building or prone then your changes of hitting go down. There are a lot of variable so your "rule of thumb" isn't always concrete. Also, my tests revealed that if the target is running perpendicular to the sniper rather than towards, then the chance of hitting goes down to about 60%. Check out my test results: http://community.battlefront.com/topic/116316-suppression-test-results/ The 600m range is really not an ideal range for a WWII sniper. Even if the target is completely still and unaware of any danger, it's a hard shot. Not impossible, just not probable. Edited June 8, 2015 by Pak40 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pak40 Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 Armoured targets? Close hits rarely kill even running infantry in the open. I've had them take out light armored vehicles at close range, under 50m. It's a hallow charge so the range doesn't matter for armor penetration (~60mm IIRC), however, rifle grenade accuracy is crap in general. I've been playing CMBN for years and have only seen a handful of RGs hit their intended target whether it's armor or infantry. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletpoint Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 (edited) About SMG range: I'm in a game currently where I've taken two casualties so far from a german submachinegunner at 182m range, with my guys behind a low stone wall. So the SMG is not useless at the 100-200m ranges. Edited June 11, 2015 by Bulletpoint 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkFib3r Posted June 11, 2015 Author Share Posted June 11, 2015 ...So the SMG is not useless at the 100-200m ranges. Perhaps 150m or less would be a good approximation for optimal range with SMGs? Because you normally have an SMG mixed with a few rifles, you probably would engage at 200m anyways unless setting up a short-range ambush. But knowing that your SMG is going to start getting effective hits or suppression out at 150m is helpful. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletpoint Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 (edited) Perhaps 150m or less would be a good approximation for optimal range with SMGs? Because you normally have an SMG mixed with a few rifles, you probably would engage at 200m anyways unless setting up a short-range ambush. But knowing that your SMG is going to start getting effective hits or suppression out at 150m is helpful. It was definitely effective at both casualties and suppression. Took about 4 casualties from it in total at that range. Forgot to check their experience level after the battle. Edited June 11, 2015 by Bulletpoint 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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