Snipers . What difference does the gun type make?

[Vanir Ausf B]

AFAIK units have always been aiming at the center of mass of the visible parts of the target.

This. And it hasn't changed.

[DreDay]

I believe the point of putting suppressors on sniper rifles isn't to make them quiet or stealthy close-in, but to make them more difficult to locate at longer ranges.  Even the best suppressors won't make a rifle totally silent, and a high-power rifle round (like .300, .308, or .388 - even .223) will still make a "crack" as it passes, but they do reduce the muzzle report (as opposed to the sound of the bullet itself) and the muzzle flash.  Suppressors on sniper rifles therefore aren't so you can kill sentries or something close-in, it's so the guy across the valley can't tell exactly where you are by light and sound.

 

 

Agreed, we are not talking about silenced weapons in the pure sense of that word. These suppressors/silencers are intended to further disguise the location of the shooter, as you correctly point out. However, in-game US sniper teams consist of 3 men (1 marksman with a suppressed weapon - MK21, 1 marksman with an unsuppressed weapon - M110, and a support trooper/spotter with M4/M320). Now let's forget about the M4 rifleman for a second... what we have are 2 marksmen engaging the targets with both suppressed and unsuppressed weapons; thus negating the advantage of a  marksman with a suppressed weapon, as his buddy is firing an unsuppressed M110 right next to him.

 

To be quite honest, I am not really confident that the silenced/suppressed weapons are modeled at this point. If they are not, hopefully the developers will find a way to integrate them into the future releases...

[cool breeze]

AFAIK units have always been aiming at the center of mass of the visible parts of the target.

 

 

This. And it hasn't changed.

 

Basically true, but I think one of the most recent patch notes was that they Improved this feature, and  I thought I noticed it in my last battle using atgm vehicles.

[agusto]

I havent read the changelog of the last patch, but what has always been a problem with vehicles that had their sensors and weapons mounted on a mast was that the vehicle didnt "see" from the position of the sensors but from the position of the crew. This problem was particularily obvious in the Marder IFV in CMSF; the Marder has its weapon and optics mounted in a small unmanned turret, which in reality makes it an excellent vehicle for shooting from hull down positions, but in CMSF the vehicle is practically useless in hull down positions because the crew, which is located in the hull of the vehicle, couldnt get LOS on anything. Maybe this issue is the one they adressed in the last patch, cool breeze. Of course, i could read the changelog, but speculating is more fun, isnt it?

[AttorneyAtWar]

Mast mounted sensors have not been added and probably won't be, that answer came straight from the top.

[Vanir Ausf B]

The changelog item is a vaguely worded reference to a bug that caused hull down status to not be properly taken into account when determining  vehicle center of mass. In other words, hull down vehicles were sometimes getting hit at their true center of mass instead of their visible center of mass.

[cool breeze]

I think the cant do part is about having the masts retract and extend.  They already have unmanned turrets and I think I remember Steve saying something about putting fake eyeballs on any part of the vehicle.  The stryker seems like an idea test vehicle. does anyone know if it ever shoots stuff that only the gun optic can see?

[astano]

Agreed, we are not talking about silenced weapons in the pure sense of that word. These suppressors/silencers are intended to further disguise the location of the shooter, as you correctly point out. However, in-game US sniper teams consist of 3 men (1 marksman with a suppressed weapon - MK21, 1 marksman with an unsuppressed weapon - M110, and a support trooper/spotter with M4/M320). Now let's forget about the M4 rifleman for a second... what we have are 2 marksmen engaging the targets with both suppressed and unsuppressed weapons; thus negating the advantage of a  marksman with a suppressed weapon, as his buddy is firing an unsuppressed M110 right next to him.

 

To be quite honest, I am not really confident that the silenced/suppressed weapons are modeled at this point. If they are not, hopefully the developers will find a way to integrate them into the future releases...

 

Are you sure about that?  The in-game models of the M110 and the M110 CSASS visually appear to be suppressed, although the squad panel icons for them don't show it. 

 

Admittedly, though, whether or not those or any other suppressors' effects are modeled I haven't done any testing to say.

[cool breeze]

I havent read the changelog of the last patch, but what has always been a problem with vehicles that had their sensors and weapons mounted on a mast was that the vehicle didnt "see" from the position of the sensors but from the position of the crew. This problem was particularily obvious in the Marder IFV in CMSF; the Marder has its weapon and optics mounted in a small unmanned turret, which in reality makes it an excellent vehicle for shooting from hull down positions, but in CMSF the vehicle is practically useless in hull down positions because the crew, which is located in the hull of the vehicle, couldnt get LOS on anything. Maybe this issue is the one they adressed in the last patch, cool breeze. Of course, i could read the changelog, but speculating is more fun, isnt it?

  Of course speculating is more fun, I almost always state my vague recollections of half a quote rather than look something up.  Unless its just a few pages back in a shallow thread like this   and by shallow I mean not 100 pages.

 

how much of said hummers could the T90s see? is it possible for you to repeat this test at least ten preferabbly more times? as long as Cmx2 has existed BFC has ephatically stated units aim for center mass and the log for 1.03 makes no mention of change regarding thiso

  Sublime you should really just bust em out and experience it for yourself I think it feels a lot better in patch 1.03

[cool breeze]

But sometimes I'll do it anyway.  Gotta be a "team player"  they say. 

 

UNIT BEHAVIOR:

• Troops will now "Cower" less readily after being shot at if they are in a low suppression state.
• Small arms fire and ricochets from friendly units will no longer cause units using the Hunt command to stop moving.
• Units are better at targeting the exposed portions of a hulldown vehicle.
• Units with handheld AT weapons are more willing to attack APS-equipped vehicles on their own without needing an explicit Target command.
• IFVs (such as BMPs or Bradleys) are now better at choosing the optimal weapon system for engaging enemy IFVs. In most cases this means that they will favor immediate use of autocannons over ATGMs.
• FIXED: Vehicles with a dismounting vehicle commander (such as a BMP's squad leader who also doubles as a vehicle commander) not getting the proper benefit of having a trained crew commander when the leader was in the vehicle.
• FIXED: Passengers in the bed of a M1152 Humvee not recognized as valid small arms targets.
• FIXED: Infantry on the move that had their next waypoint adjusted would sometimes turn around and run back to the last waypoint before continuing with their orders.

 

 

See, toldya it was in the patch notes    well sorta.  but since spotting is a two way street in this game, I think maybe this means things can spot better from hulldown too maybe?  anyway that's what it seemed like last game, I had a krysanthema that shot its whole ammo load at near minimum range of around 1 km  (and then the launch tubes got shot up, seemed different than before).  and it was out unnumbered and facing Brads and Abrams head on.

 

 

Oh and something worth noting I noticed, is I think the best positions for atgms and other things like that may be hulldown in the short grass.  We are naturally inclined to get em in hulldown positions with good concealment... but I think that works to their disadvantage.  The concealment blocks the view unless they get the hull high enough to see over it.  but then the hull isn't covered by the cover, only the concealment, and you glow up.  if intead you place it hulldown but with only tiny/short concealment, then you can see clearly while hulldown behind solid earth.  and their arn't any bushes or trees messing up LOF/LOS so the missiles hit more. 

Edited June 8, 2015 by cool breeze

[cool breeze]

Are you sure about that?  The in-game models of the M110 and the M110 CSASS visually appear to be suppressed, although the squad panel icons for them don't show it. 

 

Admittedly, though, whether or not those or any other suppressors' effects are modeled I haven't done any testing to say.

I think some of the guns have built in suppressors which may be confusing the issue

Edited June 8, 2015 by cool breeze

[akd]

[*]Units are better at targeting the exposed portions of a hulldown vehicle.

As I recall, the issue there was that the total height of some tanks with their sensors and RWS was causing the calculated center of the of the exposed turret of a hulldown tank to be closer to the roof rather than mid-turret. Edited June 8, 2015 by akd

[Sublime]

Of course speculating is more fun, I almost always state my vague recollections of half a quote rather than look something up.  Unless its just a few pages back in a shallow thread like this   and by shallow I mean not 100 pages.

 

  Sublime you should really just bust em out and experience it for yourself I think it feels a lot better in patch 1.03

i have. thats why i got involved in this convo. nearly every battle ive played since 1.03 ive had t90Am and Khriz i admit the khriz seems to work better. t90 seems the same but perhaps spots a lil better