LukeFF Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 Apparently you need to be a 13F which is a fire support specialist, there are additional skills that you pick up that allow you to be a "joint Fire observer" and from what Ive read they communicate with Apaches. http://www.army-portal.com/jobs/field-artillery/13f.html Ah OK, now that's a good link and makes more sense. I was thinking it had something to do with JFO, but I wasn't sure. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panzersaurkrautwerfer Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 Anyone can call for helicopter support. Seriously. No really. The Army is alone in that it makes a distinction between CAS (fixed wing and other people's rotary wing) and CCA (Close Combat Aviation if I remember right, Army attack helicopters). The intent behind that is that the Army aviation elements have been more or less trained to talk directly with dudes on the ground. While often the CCA may be routed through the forward observer/fires cell at Battalion*, the guy on ground is usually just a platoon leader, or NCO that has a radio and knows what's going on. When talking to CCA generally you just give them a task and purpose, and some orientation. There's a preferred format, but generally looks sort of like this: Helicopter: Blue 1 this is Mustang 64, I am two times AH-64 with eight Hellfires 38 rockets 300 rounds 30 MM each. Ground: Mustang 64 I am four times M1 tanks located vicinity <insert grid or graphic control measure here) with orange VS-17 panels on rear deck Helicopter: Roger see you Blue 1 Ground: Mustang 64 I need you to attack to destroy enemy armor located on <Objective/control measure/grid coordinate/smoke etc> in order to allow my element to advance. Helicopter: Roger, see targets. Attacking with missiles Or something like that. The amount of sexy guidance that a FIST or COLT team will give to other CAS simply is not often used with CCA. Sometimes the conversation is even more truncated. During an NTC exercise I was interrupted by a passing Kiowa who reported seeing "some dudes with RPGs" ahead and asking if I wanted him to "wax them." I replied to the affirmative and the Kiowas then dive bombed some low ground ahead of us (I think they were simulating gunpod type attacks, so had to dive on the target), gave a BDA and wished us a nice day. So in that regard, there's no required MOS, or equipment outside of a radio (or even BFT) with the right freqs and a good comsec load. In terms of 13F MOS guys, they're a bit better trained at CCA, and they've got more precise gear for processing artillery missions (and the ability to link into other people's fires nets, so not just "your" artillery, but if they need be they can talk to your Brigade's artillery, they next Brigade over's guns, USMC guns, Naval gunfire, etc etc etc), and are the ones trained to legit give terminal guidance to CAS (although the Air Force will refuse to support your training event unless it's their JTAC doing everything), but of all fires assets, Army rotary is the one that requires the lowest amount of coordination and training to operate. *Often helicopter support will be "held" at a higher level and then committed for either a certain phase of the operation, or to the unit that needs it most at a given time. The Battalion is usually the last level the helicopter is "held" before being passed off the troops in contact 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 LOL "Wax them", we need that as a CM audio mod. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AttorneyAtWar Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 Ironically that's my second choice MOS if I don't get radio operator, I might have some issues with that "full color vision" though, I am partially red green deficient. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOS:96B2P Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 (edited) Ironically that's my second choice MOS if I don't get radio operator, I might have some issues with that "full color vision" though, I am partially red green deficient. Very cool. I didn't know you had enlisted. I wish you all the best. As you might have guessed from my handle I was a 96B in the 82nd back in the 1980s. I was told they change the nomenclature since then. And one more thing, you gotta finish our PBEM before you go to basic! Chop, chop. EDIT: Also you should look into going Airborne. It's extra pay. Think how much fun it would be jumping with radio equipment. And then getting your a$$ chewed on the DZ because you "allowed" some part of the radio equipment to become damaged during the jump. Good luck with that. Edited May 29, 2015 by MOS:96B2P 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AttorneyAtWar Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 (edited) Very cool. I didn't know you had enlisted. I wish you all the best. As you might have guessed from my handle I was a 96B in the 82nd back in the 1980s. I was told they change the nomenclature since then. And one more thing, you gotta finish our PBEM before you go to basic! Chop, chop. EDIT: Also you should look into going Airborne. It's extra pay. Think how much fun it would be jumping with radio equipment. And then getting your a$$ chewed on the DZ because you "allowed" some part of the radio equipment to become damaged during the jump. Good luck with that. I'm not enlisted yet! I had enlisted 3 years ago when I just turned 18 and fresh out of college, but I had a medical issue I had to take care of...and a few other things happened in between. Hopefully this year I will be returning to MEPS and be well on my way to a wonderful life in the army. Speaking of MEPS...I think it might be the worst experience of my entire life, first time I went was a 4 hour car ride at 2 in the morning by my recruiter to Fort Hamilton (Who the hell thought it was a good idea to slap a fort under an overpass on Staten Island?), we get to reception and go through that whole process (With a marine herding us through the entrance, and of course he treated it like the first day of boot camp ). I finally get to the army reception desk and provide my information, unfortunately the army completely forgot all of my paper work at that time so I spent the next 3 hours waiting for a ride home. The second time was more successful, I got to stay in a nice 5 star hotel the night before getting shuttled to Fort Hamilton. I went through the hell that is physical testing, and got to experience people who couldn't duck walk for an hour, which was enlightening and unfortunately confirmed my worst fear that these are the people Ill probably be going too boot camp with. Alas I failed at a non critical medical test that I had to get fixed, it was expensive but now I am in a position to correct all that and rejoin. Oh and a turn is on its way hehe. Edited May 29, 2015 by Raptorx7 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panzersaurkrautwerfer Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 Re: Airborne In all seriousness good luck. If you can roll with the stupid its a pretty fun job sometimes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AttorneyAtWar Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 I'm not enlisted yet! I had enlisted 3 years ago when I just turned 18 and fresh out of college Fresh out of High School not college... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 Fresh out of High School not college... Fresh one way or the other youngster. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Los Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 Hey 96b were you in 313th CEWI? (I was there for a while in early eighties as an 17M, B coy or Ground surveillance) Before that 1/505. Los 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOS:96B2P Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 Hey 96b were you in 313th CEWI? (I was there for a while in early eighties as an 17M, B coy or Ground surveillance) Before that 1/505. Los Yes. That was my battalion. I worked in the Division G2. I was there from early 1984 until my ETS in 1987. I was (Until I got off post housing as an E-5) in the 1st barracks along Ardennes Street across from the church. I think they renamed / organized the Companies at some point. But I remember C Company. Maybe HQ company before that? Top Highland was the 1st Sgt and then after him it was the ranger dude Rodriguez? We also had Division recon in the battalion. Some of us, including 17Ms, went to Honduras during the US presidential elections. That is when we jumped with the Honduran 2nd Airborne Battalion and earned Honduran jump wings. Sorry for all that. Maybe I should have PMd. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Los Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 I left there in 78- 82 myself. Cpt Vevon and 1SG Hipp ran B company (Which was renamed from Ground surveillance and had the sensor and radar guys.) CSM of the bn was McKinney, CO LTC Campbell. Good Ole Days! Yes that was the last barracks before the barren wasteland of XVIII Abn Corps. Ok returning to helicopter transports... Los 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrangeFr3ak Posted June 2, 2015 Author Share Posted June 2, 2015 Hopefully there'd be aircraft and helicopter 3d models in the future. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c3k Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 One of buddies flew little birds. I'd bust a gut laughing as he would talk about the difference between training and reality. "shoot it! shoot it!" stands out as common phrase not used in training. "Skid monkeys" is a very descriptive term, as well, for the guys they'd carry in. Regarding the thread topic, my father was a chopper pilot in Vietnam for the 101st. He only got shot down 3 times. (Ended up commanding a chopper battalion in the Guard.) Now, a Huey ain't a Blackhawk. But modern ops ain't Vietnam, either. Just look at the Bin Laden raid to see the dangers just in flying helos. 50% loss rate without any incoming fire. Any helo within range of a medium or heavy MG is not gonna last. Let alone one operating near an autocannon. To simulate a chopper insert, load up a company on about 20+ trucks. Drive them over a ridge onto a sloped field about 500m long, and have them dismount at the bottom, then return across the ridge. Set up whatever defense you want. Let us know what kind of losses/cohesion hits that company ends up with. Ken 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panzersaurkrautwerfer Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 Hopefully there'd be aircraft and helicopter 3d models in the future. Eh. You'd see them for a few tenths of a second, even for helicopter attacks, your average map is still too short to have the chopper over your edge of the map and be firing at targets on the map. I'd kinda like a silhouette moving quickly paired with a bit less rudimentary off-board area, but that's as far as it needs to go realistically. Re: Shoot it When bullets start flying, the first thing to die is good fire commands. I like skid monkeys. We always called infantrymen "crunchies" in the armor end of things. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreDay Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 It certainly does not offer anything especially "new" vs weapons packages carried by other RU/UKR assets and given the high threat environment simulated, it seems less likely for realistic employment as an attack helicopter. Agreed. One would find very few examples of Mi-8s being used as designated gunships in Afghanistan/Chechnya/Ukraine. They do have some pretty capable weapon systems, but they are there (as a rule) for self-defense and not attack. The role of MI-8s (much like UH-60s from what I understand) is to get to the LZ safely and to drop off their troopers/cargo in 8-20 seconds. They would almost always be supported by dedicated Attack Helicopters (i.e. AH-64, MI-24, etc..) on such missions. On a bigger note - Air Assault operations require elaborate planning that would cover, ETAs, Echelons, Formations, SOPs and all kinds of other factors. I would love to see this modeled at some point, but it would take a ton of work to include this into the current engine. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c3k Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 (edited) A good read for modern air assaults is "Operation Anaconda". All sorts of beautiful powerpoint slides were created for that op. Not too much HE came in, but, damn, did it brief really well. /sarcasm Great book. An air assault against a wily opponent. Choppers came in...because they let them. Then the door got slammed shut. Here's the book: http://www.amazon.com/Not-Good-Day-Die-Operation/dp/0425207870/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1433399576&sr=1-1&keywords=operation+anaconda Edited June 4, 2015 by c3k 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Yeah I read that one, good book all around and would make for a really interesting CMSF 2 campaign. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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