Quick Battles

[agathosdaimon]

Hi!

 

I bought this game recently and one of the reasons being that i like games to have teh Quick Battle option though i am wondering if it will be improved with updates as the Enemy AI seems to just sit in a corner of the map regardless of the type of battle selected.

 

if a game is going to offer a quick battle option, i would think that it should at least have a functioning AI. I also am presuming that the AI wont respond well to complex maps such as the random one chosen for a battle for me of the region around Studienka which in the map is cut through with a river  and alot of strange hills, mounds, gorges and very few bridges

[Stagler]

Hi!

 

I bought this game recently and one of the reasons being that i like games to have teh Quick Battle option though i am wondering if it will be improved with updates as the Enemy AI seems to just sit in a corner of the map regardless of the type of battle selected.

 

if a game is going to offer a quick battle option, i would think that it should at least have a functioning AI. I also am presuming that the AI wont respond well to complex maps such as the random one chosen for a battle for me of the region around Studienka which in the map is cut through with a river  and alot of strange hills, mounds, gorges and very few bridges

 

Another +1 to my problem

 

Seriously though, QBs are meant to have AI assigned. What map were you playing, a default one?

Edited March 3, 2015 by Stagler

[agathosdaimon]

i have tried 3 different maps varying in size and details - in each of them the AI was bunched together just over in a corner - all except usually for one  or two units just sitting in the open - i dont really understand how those are determined either because the small group of 1-3 squads or vehichles just sitting in the middle of a field is just as bad as having the rest of opfor sitting in a map corner - on one map they were bunched in a corner where there was forest so i could tell if they were stuck in there or not.

 

i really like the game and i want to play it more, but i just hope the QB can have its AI improved - even if it has to be scripted, cant the program just load some quick scripts maybe a seleciton of a few different ones they could choose from

 

if on the other hand some more single battle scenarios are made then that would be cool too - in all i am hopeful that this will come in good time.

 

i dont have red thunder but does tht game have quick battles?

[AttorneyAtWar]

i have tried 3 different maps varying in size and details - in each of them the AI was bunched together just over in a corner - all except usually for one  or two units just sitting in the open - i dont really understand how those are determined either because the small group of 1-3 squads or vehichles just sitting in the middle of a field is just as bad as having the rest of opfor sitting in a map corner - on one map they were bunched in a corner where there was forest so i could tell if they were stuck in there or not.

 

i really like the game and i want to play it more, but i just hope the QB can have its AI improved - even if it has to be scripted, cant the program just load some quick scripts maybe a seleciton of a few different ones they could choose from

 

if on the other hand some more single battle scenarios are made then that would be cool too - in all i am hopeful that this will come in good time.

 

i dont have red thunder but does tht game have quick battles?

 

Is the AI attacking or defending and what are the maps?

 

Hopefully MarkEzra sees this, he pretty much scripted and made most of the QB maps, this information will be very helpful.

 

Edit: Also force composition.

Edited March 3, 2015 by Raptorx7

[agathosdaimon]

i chose AI defending at first and so i thought that was maybe the reason, but in the follow up battles i had it as a meeting engagement as that is the type of battle i prefer and in it the AI was unfortunately just as reluctant to move anywhere out of their corner.

 

in the small maps this is understandable if you stick a big force there becuase they see each other quickly, though the AI still made little attempt to move to the objective in the middle and also did not do this on a larger scale map

 

actually on the Studienka/Berezina map i think something needs to be done regarding the bridges because, my tanks could not cross the main bridge and refused to even try and then when on the smaller bridge they all were permananently stuck on the bridge itself. i never saw an enemy in that map either so i presume they just sat in their corner

[bobo]

Zodzinka?  I loaded that map in the editor and it has NO plans for the AI.  I have played a bunch of QBs and haven't had the same experience.

 

Load the map you are referring to into the editor and look for AI plans.  Most have them if not Mark usually fixes them up.

 

Thanks,

Bob

[agathosdaimon]

oh okay - i am unfamiliar with this AI plans stuff - how do i bring this up in the editor - i am not in the game at the moment, but if i load it up later and go to the editor and load the map how do i see the AI plans then?

 

if Zodinka is the name of teh map i mean, it will need in any case to have its bridges fixed because they seem uncrossable at the moment

[agathosdaimon]

i played another map and it must have had an AI as the US i was fighting against did roll up into the town and wiped me out so shockingly - a few tanks of their killed 234 of my infantry and they lost only a single man

 

i set up the battle to have air support but at no point did the game ever let me order it in - why would i not be allowed to order in my havocs - are only specific units able to do this? perhaps i didnt have them in the force i selected.

 

so re the AI it seemed a little slow to appear at first but once they arrived on the scene it was a massacre - they seemed to have perfect 360 vision wiping out men in every direction around them through copses and alleys etc - so much that i could never even fire a single AT rocket at the tanks given how quickly the russians were broken and scattered.

[womble]

It is a requirement of a Quick Battle map that it has an AI plan for both sides. The ones that came with the game should have those plans. If you just move any old map into the QB map folder, and manually select it while you're setting up the game, there is no guarantee that there is any AI plan, and the AI's forces will just do nothing. One thing to be wary of when checking out maps is just hitting Cease Fire in the setup phase; the units are not dispersed to their starting locations until after you hit the BRB for the first time. As has been said, the best way is to go into the editor. Have a read of the manual for how to use it; you'll learn useful stuff above and beyond the specific "how to look at a plan". You probably need to be able to interpret the orders in at least a cursory fashion.

If you are having problems with anything in this game, it really helps if you can be specific about where you're seeing the issue. For this case, you need to tell us the actual name of the QB map that's being used (look in the "Briefing" screen), whether the AI is attacker or defender (in ME, that's just a designation, but it matters for setup purposes), and which nations are involved.

[Pete Wenman]

If you have not already done so it will be worth your time to play the training campaign that comes with the game and is detailed in the manual. This will provide you with the bulk of the info you need to control the in game assets.

Othewise watch ChrisND's youtube videos that show him playing the training campaign

P

Edited March 3, 2015 by Pete Wenman

[Stagler]

i played another map and it must have had an AI as the US i was fighting against did roll up into the town and wiped me out so shockingly - a few tanks of their killed 234 of my infantry and they lost only a single man

 

i set up the battle to have air support but at no point did the game ever let me order it in - why would i not be allowed to order in my havocs - are only specific units able to do this? perhaps i didnt have them in the force i selected.

 

so re the AI it seemed a little slow to appear at first but once they arrived on the scene it was a massacre - they seemed to have perfect 360 vision wiping out men in every direction around them through copses and alleys etc - so much that i could never even fire a single AT rocket at the tanks given how quickly the russians were broken and scattered.

 

In the manual it says who and what units can order air support. For Russia, it is air controllers only.

[womble]

i set up the battle to have air support but at no point did the game ever let me order it in - why would i not be allowed to order in my havocs - are only specific units able to do this? perhaps i didnt have them in the force i selected.

I believe you may need a specific unit to call some kinds of air support.

so re the AI it seemed a little slow to appear at first but once they arrived on the scene it was a massacre - they seemed to have perfect 360 vision wiping out men in every direction around them through copses and alleys etc - so much that i could never even fire a single AT rocket at the tanks given how quickly the russians were broken and scattered.

Since the AI wiped the floor with you, you can hardly claim its tactical tempo was too slow. Perhaps it was perfect and caught you doing something you shouldn't have been attempting; MarkEzra has been trying out triggers for 2 releases now, so that's probably 600 QB maps he's done AIs for and he should be getting quite good at them now. Don't be tempted to accuse the AI of cheating. It operates within precisely the same rules and TacAI that you and your pTruppen do. You're new to the franchise, and it's likely there are habits you have from other games which desperately need unlearning, and the tactical environment is different from the WW2 titles, even, so there will undoubtedly be harsh lessons to learn.

[agathosdaimon]

thanks guys

 

actually i am pleased that the AI was so tough - i put myself at a disadvantage by forgetting the air controller unit. i also didnt really prepare for the AI to attack - i got to the map middle with everything in a clump  and was just trying to sort out positions and equipment of the infantry when lo teh abrams platoon rolls in and obliterates everyone

 

i think this was instructive also in showing me how much more detail there is in this game regards planning

 

sorry i didnt have the map name - after the game ended there was no indication what map that had been.

 

i am just wondering what was meant above "One thing to be wary of when checking out maps is just hitting Cease Fire in the setup phase; the units are not dispersed to their starting locations until after you hit the BRB for the first time"

 

i have just been placing units then hitting the red start button and playing real time - am i doing something wrong? what does BRB mean?

 

okay just lastly - will the AI side use Air support if i give it to them to use? they seem alright with their use of Artillery, are teh air support units visible in the game - ie if an F15 flies overhead will i know? there are jet sounds in the ambient noise but that is just background sounds. - sorry, i will have to read the manual more at length when i have more time.

 

cheers

[Michael Emrys]

what does BRB mean?

 

Big Red Button.

 

Michael

[agathosdaimon]

ah right, now i understand what was meant!

[A Canadian Cat]

sorry i didnt have the map name - after the game ended there was no indication what map that had been.

You can look up the map name by using the Briefing command under the Menu button. I have no idea of that works on the end game screen or not but during the game play it does for sure.

 

i am just wondering what was meant above "One thing to be wary of when checking out maps is just hitting Cease Fire in the setup phase; the units are not dispersed to their starting locations until after you hit the BRB for the first time"

The way things work is during the setup phase the AI units are as much of a jumble as yours are. So if you click cease fire to see where the enemy is they will look as you described in your initial post, all bunched up on a corner with one or two groups off in la la land. But once the game starts they take up their proper positions.

 

okay just lastly - will the AI side use Air support if i give it to them to use? they seem alright with their use of Artillery, are teh air support units visible in the game - ie if an F15 flies overhead will i know? there are jet sounds in the ambient noise but that is just background sounds. - sorry, i will have to read the manual more at length when i have more time.

Yep it should. And Yes you can hear air craft over head.

Just to clarify what others have said if you fight a QB using a map that came with the game and the AI just sat their off in some corner that is a bug please take note of the map name and report it. If you are using a map you got from somewhere else you are on your own