T-72B3

[antaress73]

"The T-72B3 has a hunter-killer capability even though it lacks commander's panoramic sight. Vehicle commander can select a target and lay the gun and let the gunner complete all the aiming and firing process. During that time commander looks for the next target". 

 

Source: http://www.military-today.com/tanks/t72b3.htm

 

Is that modeled in game ? Would that be Commander Video ? 

 

And why is relikt able to protect the tank against tandem warheads and not Kontakt-5 ? What is special about relikt ? 

Edited February 26, 2015 by antaress73

[exsonic01]

What I know about 4S23 / 4S24(for side)  Grau (=Relikt) is, GRAU has numerous ER plates inside, while Kontakt5 has only 3~5 of them. (maybe 3, correct me plz anyone knows more) There are other advantages of Relikt than Kontakt5, but I can't remember that now, but it is better then Kontakt 5 and Nozh. Not sure when compare to Duplet

Edited February 26, 2015 by exsonic01

[panzersaurkrautwerfer]

Re: Hunterkiller

 

Depends I'm not quite what they're referring to.  It sounds like it's just a commander's override for the gunner's controls though. 

[MikeyD]

I recall the commander having this feature in old M48s in Vietnam. There were stories of the loader in battle loading the big rounds til he dropped from exhaustion, then the gunner taking over the loader's duties while the loader collapsed in his seat, and the commander taking over the gunner's duties using is gun controls.

[panzersaurkrautwerfer]

It's been a feature on every US tank since the Sherman to be honest.  The commander looks for a target, if he finds one, he can power override the gunner's controls to traverse onto the target. In the old A1s back at Armor School, the trick was using yourself as a human periscope, so the tank was in the low ground, but your little ol' head could still see the other LTs rolling around the training area.  You'd use the override to keep the gun aligned with the target tank while you rolled out from cover, from which the gunny could then just move right into engaging while you kept an eye out for other dudes.

 

The control is basically the gunner's yoke (called a "cadillac" in tanker) replicated in a joystick form for the Commander.  The M1A2 took it to the next step by giving the Commander an entirely separate optic system paired with it, but it's the same principle.  

[wee]

Panzersaurkrautwerfer,

 

Little OT, but what tank models you have been driven and can you share any opinnions? Ever driven "classic" WW2 models?

[Stagler]

T-72B4 has a proper CITV station at least. If we were to see this then it should have the same spotting capability of the ingame M1 - give or take.

[VladimirTarasov]

T-72B4 is being bought this year, I hope they upgrade B3s to B4 status, B4 is also known as B3M

[Stagler]

T-72B4 is being bought this year, I hope they upgrade B3s to B4 status, B4 is also known as B3M

 

Good stuff.

[panzersaurkrautwerfer]

 

 

Little OT, but what tank models you have been driven and can you share any opinnions? Ever driven "classic" WW2 models?

 

Massive OT standby:

 

Nothing especially exciting, most of my tank knowledge isn't much better than a really enthusiastic student of history.

 

I've operated: M1A1HC, M1A2 SEP V2, M3A2

I've been inside of/have hands on experience with a functional: M1A2 SEP, M3A2 ODS BUSK, M2A3

I've been up and close with the following to some degree of "closer than in a museum" M48, M60, K1, K1A1, K200, BMP-1, BMP-2, T-55, and T-72M1

 

I've omitted boring stuff like M113 based vehicles, or HMMWVs.

 

When I was a young LT, the Armor fleet was still something like 60% M1A1s, so when you went through Armor School, if you were going to one of the M1A2 units (mostly 1st CAV and 4th ID at this point), you got to roll around on M1A2s.  If you were like me and going to someplace less modern, you got some vintage of A1 (mine actually had a large decal for emergency numbers to call in West Germany in the event something happened, just to give you an idea of vintage).  Our Bradleys were of even older vintage, they had the A2 armor upgrade, but none of them had LRFs.  LTs of that time period still had to do Bradley gunnery though, so that's why I have time on that platform

 

In terms of tanks though, after my first years in the Army, I went to an M1A2 SEP V2 equipped unit, and did my company commander time there. 

 

Which is the long way of saying "I know late-model M1A1s okay, and M1A2 SEP V2s really well."

 

If you've got other questions, there's some sort of "sericepeople talk about military stuff' thread on this forum, it's likely a few pages down, feel free to drop them in there or personal message me or something.  Don't want to derail this much more.

[Krasnoarmeyets]

"The T-72B3 has a hunter-killer capability even though it lacks commander's panoramic sight. Vehicle commander can select a target and lay the gun and let the gunner complete all the aiming and firing process. During that time commander looks for the next target".

That is just the regular "Dubl'" ("double") mode of the FCS, which allows the TC to precisely lay the cannon and engage the target independently of the gunner, which has been present at least since the T-80U (do not recall if the late T-64B/80B had it too). The commander still has to acquire the target though, so that is mostly for engaging immediate threats at the shorter range, when there is no time to give commands to the gunner. In general, the capability for the TC to automatically lay the gun to the given azimuth (with the gunner completing aiming in the vertical plane) is ancient, present on the Soviet tanks at least since T-10 (again do not recall right now if the T-44/54 had it too), and on the Western counterparts also IIRC. It is the CITV that really makes the difference, so I hope to see the T-72B4 in a later module (still, the best modification for T-72 was the B2, which unfortunately was deemed too cost-ineffective, apparently). Edited February 27, 2015 by Krasnoarmeyets

[antaress73]

T-72b2 ? thats the Rogatka ? Didnt they modify 300 of them to this standard ? Why isnt it black sea if thats so ?

[DreDay]

T-72b2 ? thats the Rogatka ? Didnt they modify 300 of them to this standard ? Why isnt it black sea if thats so ?

 

Rogantka had never entered Russian service. It was deemed to be too expensive for a "cheap" upgrade.

[Krasnoarmeyets]

T-72b2 ? thats the Rogatka ? Didnt they modify 300 of them to this standard ? Why isnt it black sea if thats so ?

The T-72B/B1 modernization that was ongoing since late 90's and until B3 introduction in 2013 brought them up to the BA modification standards: improved FCS (initial version mostly just tying in new wind sensor, later much more significant automatized versions), "Kontakt-5" ERA (kept original "Kontakt" on the first several batches), better gun stabilizer, improved engine, transmission and chassis, improved driver mine protection, IR signature reduction, digital communications, older vehicles receive 1989-type turrets, other various minor improvements. B2 exist only as factory testing and demonstration vehicles.

Edited February 27, 2015 by Krasnoarmeyets

[Stagler]

Glorious design of Rogatka was cancelled.

And glorious design it was indeed - Sosna-U, Relikt as standard, and Nakidka as standard.

[BTR]

Relikt isn't much of an upgrade factor, since it can be pretty much bolted onto anything with K-5. For example, this Algerian T-72M1:

 

[DreDay]

Relikt isn't much of an upgrade factor, since it can be pretty much bolted onto anything with K-5. For example, this Algerian T-72M1:

 

Interestingly enough, "Nakidka" appears to be very cheap as well; however Rogantka had a lot of other add-ons that were deemed to be frivolous by Russian military command. For instance it had a new IED/magnetic mine spoofer that was seen as "unnecessary for conventional conflicts" by Russian high brass....

[BTR]

Again, nothing conventional EMT attached to any KMT series minesweeper can't achieve. Example here (KMT-7 + EMT):

 

 

I think the MOD didn't want to replace standard issue operational equipment with whatever toys thrown at it. B2 was a good testbed, but the juice of it was given to B3 with no additional cost. Relikt is operational, nakidka is operational, but up to this year, no strategic challenge required their use. 

[DreDay]

BTR, I agree with you in principle. The price tag of Rogatka was simply not worth it to Russian MOD, and they had chosen to go for a relatively cheap B3/B4 upgrade while waiting for Armata to materialize. We will know soon enough if their approach was justified. If not, we will probably see quite a few T-90s being ordered by Russian MOD again...