Sequoia Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 The release of the Vehicle Pack started me thinking about possible future packs for CM:BN. The Vehicle Pack was, I believe, inspired in good part by the need for flame weapons and vehicles made possible by the 3.0 upgrade. This in turn leads me to think that future packs may also be driven by engine development. One feature not yet implemented is amphibious capability. I don't think Battlefront will ever have beach landings with landingcraft. This leaves us with vehicles such as the Seep, Dukw, Schwimmwagen, and Terrapin and assault boats/rafts. I could be wrong, but don't believe crossings under fire were made with any of the vehicles listed except in very rare cases. That's not the case for boats/rafts. If this is true is it really worth the effort by Battlefront to implement amphibious vehicle capability? I would argue it would be for the boats/rafts but for vehicles it seems like a much lower priority. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hister Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 Paddling animation is gonna be a bitc* to create. I'm all for it of course. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YankeeDog Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 Not much; in the CM context I agree that assault boats & rafts would be the most important. DUKWs, Schwimmwagens et al. would be very rare at the point of contact as CM depicts. One big exception is that the Allies did use a fair number of LVTs in Operation Infatuate (operation to clear the Scheldt Estuary), and in this operation the LVTs got directly involved in combat to some extent. They were also used later in the crossings of the Rhine and Elbe, but I don't know whether they got involved much in the shooting in those actions. As a side note the LVTs were used as much to cross the mud flats and marshes in the Scheldt Estuary as they were to actually cross open water. Interesting to contemplate how valuable it would be to have a light armored vehicle that could cross marsh terrain in the game... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 Were LCVPs used in some of the Rhine crossings? ISTR reading something along those lines including mention that they were moved by truck to the riverside. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YankeeDog Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 Were LCVPs used in some of the Rhine crossings? ISTR reading something along those lines including mention that they were moved by truck to the riverside. Yes. They were used in limited numbers in a few other large river crossings as well. IIRC, for the Rhine crossings they actually managed to get a few of the somewhat larger LCMs overland to the river for use in the crossings as well. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 Michael Emrys, The ones I know of were LCMs, not the much lighter LCVP. A search of the Forums under Boat Two will provide the information. My Uncle George, MoMM3c, was in Boat Two aka Patton's Navy. The only pic I used to know of covering Boat Two is at the FB link in the post. http://www.battlefront.com/community/showthread.php?t=116854&highlight=boat+two WW II section of history of Navy riverine warfare has several solid paragraphs on Navy involvement in crossing the Rhine. Included is a new to me pic of an M boat on a tank retriever trailer. http://www.history.navy.mil/library/online/riverine.htm And these very close range pics of the M boats and the Dragon Wagons are simply phenomenal and wholly new to me. Sadly, the in-pic captions are altogether too faint. http://www.maketarstvo.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=19388&sid=37a3faf29fe639d9bd73d139e91a2b20 An oral history with a bit of coverage of Boat Two. http://www.amazon.com/Small-Boats-Large-Slow-Targets/dp/1575100436 Landing craft compared. http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USN/ships/ships-slc.html Regards, John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 If you are interested in landing craft, I suggest you hunt down a copy of Allied Landing Craft of World War Two. This was a classified wartime document available now as a very nice reprint from the Naval Institute Press. This is the kind of book you sit down with to thumb through and the next thing you know four hours have passed. It is truly amazing the variety of ships and craft that were purpose built to perform various specialized tasks. One can also observe how certain designs evolved as experience was gained and/or missions were redefined. One thing to be aware of: by "Allied" what is meant is US and UK. Whatever was produced by smaller Allies is not covered. But what is covered is so vast that one doesn't much miss whatever might have been overlooked. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocketman Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 Now that "CM: Black Sea" is announced (yes, check it out!) it will have tanks with amphibious capabilities travel across deep water. Maybe that means that they have changed the game engine so that we in the future might see amphibious vehicles in CMBN/CMFI as well. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 I think maybe about now folks should check the Black Sea forum. Amphibious vehicles Water is no longer an obstacle! Most Russian and Ukrainian vehicles are now capable of swimming across the surface of water obstacles, giving them enhanced tactical utility. Good show rocketman 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 Sequoia, Does storming the Oder count? Amphibious jeeps operated by Scouts/Spetsnaz are decamouflaged, manned and driven across the Oder. These are the troops who first establish the bridgehead and, inter alia, they have bazookas to protect the lodgment against the Panzers! Fun begins at 37:00. Regards, John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 Sequoia, Am quite surprised neither you nor anyone else said nothing in response to my No. 10 above. Regards, John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sequoia Posted November 9, 2014 Author Share Posted November 9, 2014 Okay John, I'll bite. How common was this though? Enough to put the effort into putting them into the game over other things? I'm sure just about everything happened once. IIRC there was a tank-submarine duel. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 Seqouia, You raised the issue of whether amphibious vehicles had a place in the CM context. The Oder crossing footage at my No 10 is is part of my answer in the affirmative, though obviously not typical. I've recently seen some stills showing a Schwimmwagen recon patrol out on a river, and the text said such activities were common. 15,584 of the buglike creatures. Terrapins were cool, but the LVTs were a key part of the Scheldt Estuary Campaign--with the added bonus that interested parties may have other good uses for them. Ditto LCVPs. I've already detailed Boat Two's instrumental role in getting Patton's Third Army across Europe. DD Shermans were used amphibiously in Ops Dragoon (Invasion of Southern France), the Scheldt, and both DD Shermans and DD Valentines were used to assault cross the Po and Adige rivers during the Italian Campaign. DD tanks were used amphibiously (in conjunction with LVTs) in Op Plunder (Rhine Crossing) and combat crossed the Elbe. Seeps were used all over the place, with many sent to Russia. Yes, I deem amphibious vehicles do have a place in CM. And they are many orders of magnitude less rare than certain AFVs which are in the game already. 12,778 Seeps alone stand opposed to total Tiger tank production (I,II, Ferdinand, Jagdtiger) of 2112. British production alone of DD Shermans (693) was on par with total King Tiger production, and that doesn't count another 213 DD Valentines. http://the.shadock.free.fr/sherman_minutia/duplexdrive/duplexdrive.html Regards, John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 Have also learned that the US supplied 589 DUKWs to Russia, which were used for river crossings and ops in the Pripyat Marsh. It impressed them enough that they copied it after the war. Second link has pics. http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/ww2/US/GMC_DUKW.php http://www.soviethammer.net/blog/1717292-soviet-dukws/ Regards, John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Bennett Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 While they are making the amphibious assault vehicles can we get a Valentine bridgelayer? It didn't make the cut for the "crabs" package. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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