How to effectivly set up an ambush in CMx2?

[MisterMark]

I know in CMx1 you could set up an ambush by hiding your infantry in good cover and setting up a target arc. The unit for the most part would remain undetected until something passed through the cover arc at which point the hiding unit would come out of hiding and surprise the enemy with fire superiority.

In CMx2 it doesn't seem to work the same... if I recall correctly, you can hide your unit and set up the target arc the same way, but your unit won't come out of hiding and surprise the enemy with overwhelming fire once the enemy has entered the target arc.

Does anyone have any suggestions on how to set up an ambush similar to CMx1 in CMx2?

Thank you,

Mark

[postfux123]

The cover arc should work like in CMx1. I think that the hide command does more than to just reduce visibilty. Your spotting will get worse and your troops will be more reluctant to open fire.

I stopped using the command except I really want my guys to hide and cant offer any more insight than that.

[womble]

As postfux said. You don't need to hit the "Hide" command, just set a Target Arc. The Hide command has the majority of the unit face down in the dirt for the majority of the time, and additionally inhibits firing, regardless of the advantage the team might have by opening fire. Face down in the dirt means they might not spot the victims in the kill zone, but even if an occasionally-heads-up pTruppe does acquire them, they'll be reluctant to fire because you told them to Hide.

The TacAI tries to position the individual pTruppen in the spots in the AS they occupy with the best concealment and firing opportunities anyway, so unless you want to force maximum heads-down, Hide isn't really necessary. Of course the TacAI didn't have any similar considerations in CMx1 since the microtopology and precise position of the squad members was very abstracted.

[Bulletpoint]

I used hide + target arcs to good effect in "Turnbull's Stand". When the enemy enters the arc, the troops (are supposed to) come out of hiding. But of course they need to spot the enemy.

So, basically, you can do an ambush with or without hide command. If you do hide, then you risk the enemy walking through the arc without any of your troops spotting them. But, as far as I can see, the enemy is also less likely to spot your troops before they walk into the ambush zone.

Example 1: Your squad is behind a hedge and 50 metres away there's another hedge. The enemy is likely to press his attack from that hedge. You want to open fire at close range once the enemy leaves the protection of his hedgerow, but you think he will sit there for a moment to spot before moving on. The close distance means that your troops are likely to be spotted, so you make them hide. Once the enemy troops break cover, they trigger your target arc and your guys come out of hiding. Even though your troops were hiding, the close distance means that it's unlikely that they will not notice the enemy.

Example 2: You place a bazooka-team at the side of a road so they can hit passing armour, but LOS to the enemy side of the map is blocked by houses. That means there's no risk of getting spotted from there, and once the enemy tank comes into view, you want to make sure you have the best chances of reacting to it. So you set a covered armour arc but no hide command.

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[Erwin]

I can't be sure but I vaguely recall discussion that HIDE command was subtly altered in a recent patch/update so that troops were more likely to respond to enemy entering its arc.

Otherwise, using HIDE is often suicidal.

The annoyance is when you have troops on HIDE on one side of a wall and a tank target stationary on the other. Despite the noise and vibration, they generally won't ambush (or they used not to).

[A Canadian Cat]

Example 1: Your squad is behind a hedge and 50 metres away there's another hedge. The enemy is likely to press his attack from that hedge. You want to open fire at close range once the enemy leaves the protection of his hedgerow, but you think he will sit there for a moment to spot before moving on. The close distance means that your troops are likely to be spotted, so you make them hide. Once the enemy troops break cover, they trigger your target arc and your guys come out of hiding. Even though your troops were hiding, the close distance means that it's unlikely that they will not notice the enemy.

Have you tried this lately? My experience is that the enemy would break cover and enter my cover arcs and keep on moving towards my men without being spotted. Once they got really close they would see my men and shoot them. My men would simply die without any idea what hit them.

Example 2: You place a bazooka-team at the side of a road so they can hit passing armour, but LOS to the enemy side of the map is blocked by houses. That means there's no risk of getting spotted from there, and once the enemy tank comes into view, you want to make sure you have the best chances of reacting to it. So you set a covered armour arc but no hide command.

Now that is how to setup an ambush.

Otherwise, using HIDE is often suicidal.

If the enemy is approaching it is suicidal. The only thing I use hide for these days is when the artillery starts falling. Any one caught under it hides.

[Bulletpoint]

Have you tried this lately? My experience is that the enemy would break cover and enter my cover arcs and keep on moving towards my men without being spotted. Once they got really close they would see my men and shoot them. My men would simply die without any idea what hit them.

No, I haven't tried it recently. I think it was around one year ago that I played that mission. Back then it worked fine, but then again, maybe unit quality plays into it as well (in this case: paratroopers).

[slysniper]

I do not trust the hidden units to spot, But If I want the enemy to get very close to my ambush location. the only way that is going to happen is to have my units hidden.

So my trick is. If I need my men concealed. I hide them only if I have other units that have good overwatch locations that I can leave unhidden and can open fire and spot the enemy before they walk over the top of my hidden group.

So my ambushes play out like this many times. Enemy enters an open area moving towards my troops in heavy brush 50 meters away (not spotted because they are hidden.) I have a mg on the flank 150 meters away with a cover arc that allows it to open up on the enemy when they are about 35 meters away from my troops and now they are not able to retreat immedietely to cover.

So the mg opens up on the enemy, which normally will stop them in their tracks, they start returning fire. But whether they are winning or losing that fight does not matter. On the next turn. I unhide all my hidden troops and they start in on the fire fight. Normally leading to good success.

That is how I like to set up my ambushes. With long range assets starting the fire fight, then close rangre assets opening up after unhiding or by actually moving them up from a totally hidden spot (like being behind a house, then moving them into the house once my long range unit has the enemy in a fire fight).

[H1nd]

buahahah hide is far from suicidal. I Always use it untill the very last moment you need that as good as possible los Infantry survivability improves considerably imho if you use hide command as much as possible and have only few unhidden spotters. Ofc if the enemy is within 150m and might advance on your position you can wonder if it's risky to let them come any closer. I like to ambush advancing infantry under 100m range with a forward unit while other units futher back support and make it possible for the forward unit to withdraw once they start to get too much heat.

I usually try to time my ambushes to turn changes so that I can open up with all my firepower simultaneously. In this plan the cover arch is there only as last back up if the enemy makes any sudden moves and get's within 50m from the closest unit. It takes some nerves to let the enemy as close as possbile but if that means cathing him in the open i'm willing to take that risk.

[A Canadian Cat]

maybe unit quality plays into it as well (in this case: paratroopers).

Now that certainly could be a factor. The last time I used hide like that it was Regular Herr infantry.

So my trick is. If I need my men concealed. I hide them only if I have other units that have good overwatch locations that I can leave unhidden and can open fire and spot the enemy before they walk over the top of my hidden group....

That sounds like a good way to set things up. I'll keep my eye open for that :0

[Erwin]

Probably need to make clear if posters are talking WEGO or RT play, as that makes a lot of difference. I think in WEGO using HIDE in ambush is very hard unless in coordination with others per slysniper's tactics. In RT of course it's dead easy to ambush using HIDE.

[Michael Emrys]

Probably need to make clear if posters are talking WEGO or RT play, as that makes a lot of difference. I think in WEGO using HIDE in ambush is very hard unless in coordination with others per slysniper's tactics. In RT of course it's dead easy to ambush using HIDE.

Almost a pity that we can't switch back and forth between WEGO and RT in the middle of a game. Ordinarily I play only WEGO, but I admit that now and then I'd like to go RT for a minute or less to perform a specific function.

Michael