MisterMark

When I'm playing an attack against the computer and I'm seemingly winning the battle (but it doesn't seem quite for sure yet), the battle often times comes to a somewhat unexpected stop and I end up with a major victory due to the AI throwing in the towel. However, many times I find I haven't taken all the objectives and upon looking over the fully revealed map and the AAR, there were still a fair amount of capable enemy units still holding key ground. I'm not 100% sure on how it works but from my rough estimation, it seems once you have inflicted greater than 70% casualties on the enemy, the AI just gives up. And I get it... it's practical to have some sort of threshold for when it's time for the other side to give up. But when this happens too soon, it feels disappointing to get the victory without taking all the objectives. Furthermore, it robs you of the satisfaction of getting to 'mop up' the last of the hold outs... which despite any kind of numerical advantage you would have at that point, wouldn't guarantee you would just easily root out and roll over any remaining defending units. It seems completely possible that you could take a fair share of losses that could still sway the outcome of the battle from a major victory to a minor victory. Does anyone from Battlefront have any idea on the criteria and details for the algorithm that dictates when the AI surrenders? Is it based on purely casualties/points? Or does the algorithm take into account the percentage of units that have a shattered moral state? I've seen this complaint brought up before but wondering if there has been any work-arounds or mods out there that will fix this? If not, it would be a welcomed update for Battlefront to add some sort of option to raise the threshold for full AI capitulation so you could extend the battle to through a mop up phase. Maybe it's a slider that you can pre select the percentage of casualties or shattered units to get a full surrender? And to take it a step further, a really awesome feature would be to have the option to randomize the threshold so you wouldn't know exactly how far you needed to take the battle to get the major victory. If this isn't possible in a future update, at the very least, make it where all the objectives have to be taken to get the major victory. Not sure how the surrendering threshold could be update for defending or meeting engagements but one way or the other, I believe a lot of players would appreciate some update or tweak to this aspect of the game. Would be curious hear other's thoughts and opinions on this. -Mark

I put out a post several years ago about the AI in CM2 vx CM1... I'm reposting the link as I think it's worth taking a look at for those invested in this current thread:

Does anyone have the CMPzC rule book pdf that outlines how to merge CM with the John Tiller Panzer Campaigns series for operational play? There was a link were you could download it in this discussion here: Seems the link to download it no longer works... If someone has it might you be able to send to me? Thank you, -Mark

I wanted to see if there is anyone in this community willing to make some custom force selections and AI plans for a few maps (CMFI) per my spec? If so, PM me and I'll give you some instructions and proposed maps. Thank you, Mark

One approach I have taken for playing with large numbers of infantry (and out of laziness) is to just detach a small recon force and leave the rest behind in the rear area as a reserve. Once contact is made I move in only what I think is necessary to deal with the threat and focus on the point of contact as a abstract objective. I'm still inclined to bring in heavy weapons and tanks over a smashing force of infantry. There is of course great satisfaction in taking a localized area of the map but because of the time constraint and the fact that I've not mobilized most of my infantry to deal with the rest of the map, I usually end up losing the the battle. On a side note, am I even using my infantry the correct way? Meaning, for battles that I win, I usually use my infantry as 'bait' to reveal and locate enemy positions and use mortars, tanks and artillery to take them out rather than taking the positions with an appropriate amount of infantry. Like I stated before, in the AAR my infantry usually account for very little of the enemy losses. Is this typical? All thoughts welcomed, -Mark

Love the CM2 platform for a variety of reasons but am I the only one that finds it tedious and daunting to manage anything more than a few platoons of infantry? And once you start splitting infantry up into teams and trying to use them with sound coordinated tactics, the workload obviously multiplies. Furthermore, when the bullets start flying and units get spread out and disorganized, my willingness to control them with same level of detail as before goes out the window. Am I too focused on micromanaging? For large engagement with a company or more of infantry, is it better to use generalized grouped orders and not be as concerned with organization and losses? In my combined arms battles I consistently find my infantry to be responsible for very few enemy casualties as compared to my mortars, tanks and artillery. Any tips from the CM2 veterans out there on how to organize and manage large formations of infantry and still keep the game fun? Thanks, -Mark

All good suggestions... but does anyone know what the various plane sounds mean? Just because you hear a plane fly by on a particular turn, does it always mean a strafe or bomb drop coming on the next turn? Also, can you tell when the plane is leaving and/or not coming back?

I haven't played very many scenarios where there is air cover... I'm just a bit confused by the various sounds that you hear as a plane is covering the map. Has anyone been able to notice any patterns or use the sounds as an indicator as to what will happen next and how soon or later or for how long? Also, if you don't have any AA assets deployed what are some things you can do to foil an air strike or minimize it's effects? Obviously getting infantry into a building is a great start but what else? Thank you, -Mark

Progress report... purchased the v3.0 upgrade and now I have command lines! All is right with the world and I can sleep comfortably at night now. -Mark

@IanL - Ah I see... It's an upgrade that I have to pay for. I thought it was included with the Gustav Line bundle. Thank you for clarifying. -Mark

@Blazing 88's and @badger yes I tried that and nothing happened... When I check the hotkeys menu there is no option at all there for toggling command lines.

Mine says v1.12 in the lower right and my splash screen shows the Gustav Line icon... I thought I bought the same Gustav Line bundle and then added the patch. If I didn't do something correctly with the purchase or the patch, it may explain why I haven't been able to play the modified QB/scenario you and kohlenklau tweaked out. I copied and pasted the description from the confirmation email of what I paid for an downloaded: CMFI + Gustav Line BUNDLE (Delivery: Download Only CFI1-PC-DW $65.00 $65.00 and I downloaded and installed this patch: http://www.battlefront.com/index.php?option=com_versions&Itemid=317#CM: Fortress Italy PC Is this all correct to have the latest version and patch? -Mark

@kohlenklau - FYI, I downloaded this file and put it in my scenario folder for CMFI and can't seem to find it when I try to selected from the 'Battle' menu. I also loaded it in the scenario editor to see if something was corrupt with it and it seems to not have any parameters or units set... It didn't even have a map other than the stock flat grass map that is defaulted when you first create a new scenario. Maybe it's a problem on my end? Anyone else? -Mark

I recently purchased CMFI/Gustav Line... I can't seem to get the command lines toggle to work. I even downloaded and installed the v1.12 patch. Are command lines simply not an option for CMFI right now? Thank you, Mark

@Blazing 88's - wow didn't know something like this existed! Thanks for sharing and I will be sure to check it out in more detail... @Heirloom_Tomato - thanks for the offer... I have CMFI so I'll try a out a map or two! @Heirloom_Tomato and @Meach - How would you feel if I sent you guys a map each with a point limit so you can purchase the defenders forces within that limit, compose defensive plans for them and save as an unfinished scenario to send back to me? Then I can purchase my forces (without looking at what you picked of course), save and then play as a quasi quick battle? -Mark

SlySniper, I hear ya and I do of course play H2H as well as scenarios in CMx2 and enjoy them very much... but sometimes a QB is all I have time for. H2H can be a lengthy endeavor and after one has played most of the scenarios that come with the game, it takes a bit of time hunting to find a new scenario that fits the size, terrain and force selection that you are in the mood for. Although CMx2 is superior in so many ways to CMx1, QB's in CMx1 give me more of what I'm looking for. And I only came to this revelation after going back to CMx1 on a recent whim. No disrespect to any of the developers or scenario authors of CMx2, but I was just voicing my opinion and checking in to see if I am the only one that feels this way. And to Meach... I suppose something can be done given my limited understanding of the capabilities of the editor... I've messed around with it a few times but will admit that I don't understand all details or have anywhere near the skill to make scenario or amend a map myself. But would it not be possible to amend the stock probe/attack/assault QB's maps with additional defensive AI plans that are a bit more complex and dynamic? For example, adding a trigger or triggers to have units converge towards an objective and take up new positions once units of the human controlled army are within a threatening distance of the objective? And as I understand it, the AI can't call in artillery on it's own but can't the timing of the barrages be varied a bit so they don't always start falling so predictably on turn 1? And speaking of triggers and artillery, can artillery be associated with a trigger? If so that alone would be a huge improvement that could be implemented for the current selection of QB maps. I suppose the real challenge would be getting an independent group of scenario makers to go back through all the stock QB's and amend them and make them available for download or have BF roll them into a patch. I of course could learn to do it myself and take on a few maps that I may want to play, but then that sort of defeats the element of being surprised. -Mark

I see and understand what you are all saying, but I'm comparing the quality of fight of the defending AI in QB's in each CM platform. Would you not all agree that attacking the AI in a QB in CMx2 is not as challenging as it is in CMx1? Defending AI armor in CMx2 just seems to sit there and once you spot it you can usually outflank it and mount an attack pretty easily, depending on the terrain. Furthermore, I didn't even compare artillery barrages between the two platforms. Defending AI in CMx2 in QB's is so predictable and easy to foil.... in my experience barrages always come down in the obvious avenues of approach on the first turn. Once you know this all you have to do is wait 5 min before you have any of your forces leave the setup zone. In CMx1 barrages are a real threat that can come down anywhere on a portion of your forces that are within visual of the enemy FO. I understand AI routines in CMx1 are simple but in comparing attacking QB's between the two platforms, the simpler defending AI routines seems to give a better fight. I suppose the real issue for my complaint for QB's fights in CMx2 comes down to how the defending AI plans have been written for all the maps. Despite the ability to have multiple AI plans written for a map, the defending AI plans seem to have all been written with the same basic static strategy. And I know hundreds of QB maps have been crafted for CMx2 by talented authors but the random map generation for CMx1is greatly missed. -Mark

I'm really into CMx2 and but I find QB's against the AI not super challenging or exciting.... Especially when you are doing a prob/attack/assault. I recently played a QB in CMAK and forgot how challenging and dynamic the AI can be. Fifteen min into the battle a tiger rolled in from a far flank. I engaged it with 4 shermans, but the tiger ultimately won despite my efforts to attack it simultaneously from 2 different directions. It was changing direction, rotating it's turret, coming in and out of cover and intuitively reacting to the biggest threat in each moment. On top of that, after the first line of infantry defending the objective were overwhelmed, a second wave of defenders seemed to activate from deeper inside the map to fill holes in the initial defense and counter attacked. Sure, in a scenario/campaign in CMx2 you are likely to see similar behavior from the AI depending on the creativity of the scenario author... I understand the scenario editor allows for some very creative and complex programming of the AI but something is seriously lacking for the AI plans and behavior for QB's. Defending AI infantry and armor seem very static as the battle progresses and I don't ever recall seeing anything close to the behavior that I saw in CMx1. And on a side note, computer generated force selection for QB's often results in awkward forces even when 'mix' is selected. I recall many times getting mainly half tracks full of infantry for example. And in my most recent QB I got a whole bunch of 50 cal teams and a sherman.... and after playing several QB's in CMx2, force selection becomes predictable, even with rarity set to loose. I'm guessing it's probably too unrealistic but wonder if CMx2 could ever be patched so that you can have the option of creating and going with premade AI plans for QB's or going with an automatic AI routine similar to CMx1? I think AI plans for meeting engagements and the AI plans for probes/attacks/assaults is good but the behavior for the AI defending just seems very flat. How do others feel about the defending AI in QB's for CMx2 vs CMx1? -Mark

Yeah I did a few of those back in the day and always ended up frustrated.... got tired of putting in all the code and getting an error. Too damn hard to debug a typo buried in hundreds of lines of code on an Apple IIc! -Mark

I posted this on the RT forums but posting here as well since I think others might find it useful.... When playing the AI especially in a meeting engagement, are you looking for a bit more of a challenge? Wouldn't it be interesting if you could have your force arrive in various sections and at unpredictable times? I initially got the following idea from someone else who had started a thread about creating deployment rules with a random component (i think they pulled cards to generate their directives)... Couldn't seem to find the original thread unfortunately. Basically, I programmed my own random generator (in Applesoft BASIC) that runs in a simple Apple II emulator (Javascript in a browser window). Here is the link for the emulator (http://www.calormen.com/jsbasic/ ). Below I've included the programming code. All you have to do to use it is to copy in my code and hit the 'run' button. Now I'll explain how it works.... I made this mainly for meeting engagement vs the AI in WEGO in order to make my medium and large battles a bit more challenging and interesting by not allowing me to advance all available forces at once and to create a randomized and unpredictable reinforcement schedule. But I suppose it could work for probes, attacks and assaults as well as certain defenses. Using a meeting engagement for example... I'll usually hand pick my forces and when it comes to the set up screen, I'll place them line abreast as far back in the set up zone as possible (assuming the set up zone is initially out of visual contact from the enemy). Then I start the battle and run my deployment generator... It asks how many friendly HQ's are left in the battle... Since it's the start of the battle, it would be all of them. So let's say I have the following forces and HQ's organized in the following manner: 1st Infantry Battalion HQ1 A Company HQ2 1st platoon HQ3 2nd platoon HQ4 3rd platoon HQ5 B Company HQ6 1st platoon HQ7 2nd platoon HQ8 3rd Armored Battalion HQ9 1st Tank Platoon HQ10 2nd Tank Platoon HQ11 Based on this selection I would have a total of 11 HQ's and I would enter it into my deployment generator. It would then randomly select one of the 11 HQ's to have a chance to deploy... Let's say it selected the 6th HQ. Going in sequential order of the above force selection, HQ6 would mean B company and all it's subordinate HQ's (HQ7 and HQ8) would have a chance to deploy . Next the generator will ask what is the chance that HQ6 will be deployed. I set it up so I can make my own odds based on a factor of 10. I made my own rules as follows but you could make up your own: Chance a whole battalion will deploy: 1 in 10 Chance a whole company will deploy: 3 in 10 Chance any particular platoon will deploy 5 in 10 Based on these rules I would enter 3... then the generator would let me know if HQ6 (B company and all it's subordinates) would be arriving or not. If it is, it would let me know if it would be arriving this turn or at some turn in the future (I have it programmed for a maximum of 5 minutes). If it did not deploy, then I wouldn't be able to advance or use any of B Company's forces on that turn. If it did deploy and say the generator said it would arrive in 2 minutes, then I could only advance or use B company after those two minutes passed. If a unit deploys I would then take it off the list and re-number my remaining HQ's before I ran the generator again for the next turn. In this example, I would only have 8 more HQ's left so that is what I would put into the generator for the next turn. Let's say it tells me that HQ8 has a chance to deploy and after entering its deployment odds of 5 it arrives on this turn ... in this example that would mean 2nd Tank Platoon would be available to advance. I would then take it off the list and run the generator again for the next turn. Now I have only 7 HQ's left. So let's say the generator pulls up HQ1... that would mean 1st Battalion and any remaining subordinates, which would be A Company, 1st Platoon, 2nd Platoon and 3rd Platoon... then of course I would put in it's deployment odds which would be 1. Let's say it would be arriving in 5 min... then of course that would mean I could not advance or use any of 1st Battalion, A Company, 1st, 2nd or 3rd Platoon until 5 turns have passed. I would continue this process until all HQ's and their subordinates had deployed... certainly makes it more challenging in a meeting engagement when you don't get any forces to advance until 3-5 minutes into the battle for example. Or it's 8 or 10 minutes into the battle and you are only fighting with a platoon and are desperately needing more units to arrive and get into the fight. I've played one game where it took almost 30 min for my tank battalion to show up... talk about challenging!' If my instructions seem hard to follow or confusing, please let me know and I'll try to clarify. But basically this system allows you to have reinforcements show up at unpredictable times. You just have to run it outside of CM and make sure you keep track of what the generator dictates. I just keep track of the the list and directives on a piece of paper. If you are versed in the BASIC programming code, feel free to make your own adjustments/improvements or adapt it to your specific needs. Enjoy! -Mark ------MisterMark's Deployment Generator Code----- 1 Rem MisterMark's Deployment Generator for CM 2 PR#3 : TEXT : HOME 3 PRINT "Press any key to generate mission parameters."; 4 CA = INT( RND(8) * 10)+1 5 T = INT( RND(1) * 6 ) 6 S = INT( RND(8) * 20 )+1 7 IF (PEEK(49152)) THEN GET G$:PRINT:PRINT: GOTO 10 8 GOTO 4 10 Rem Generate 11 PRINT "How many HQ's left in this battle?"; 15 INPUT " ";H 16 IF H < 1000 AND H > 1 THEN GOTO 19 17 GOTO 11 19 FOR X = 1 TO 3000: NEXT X 20 S = INT( RND(8) * H )+1 25 PRINT 30 PRINT "What is HQ";S "'s chance to be deployed?"; 40 INPUT " ";C 41 FOR X = 1 TO 3000: NEXT X 42 IF C = 0 THEN GOTO 30 45 PRINT: PRINT "S t a n d b y . . ." 70 FOR X = 1 TO 17000 : NEXT X 80 CA = INT( RND(8) * 10)+1 81 IF C = 1 AND CA = 1 THEN GOTO 200 82 IF C = 2 AND CA <= 2 THEN GOTO 200 83 IF C = 3 AND CA <= 3 THEN GOTO 200 84 IF C = 4 AND CA <= 4 THEN GOTO 200 85 IF C = 5 AND CA <= 5 THEN GOTO 200 86 IF C = 6 AND CA <= 6 THEN GOTO 200 87 IF C = 7 AND CA <=7 THEN GOTO 200 88 IF C = 8 AND CA <=8 THEN GOTO 200 89 IF C = 9 AND CA <=9 THEN GOTO 200 110 PRINT: PRINT "HQ"; S " did not deploy or arrive on this turn." 115 GOTO 400 120 GET R 130 GOTO 5 140 150 REM IF CA = 1 THEN PRINT "HQ";H " will deploy in ";T " minuets" 200 T = INT( RND(1) * 6 ) 250 IF T = 0 THEN GOSUB 275 255 IF T > 0 THEN GOSUB 300 260 GOTO 400 275 PRINT: PRINT "HQ";S " has arrived on this turn!" 280 RETURN 300 PRINT: PRINT "HQ";S " will arrive in "; T " min!" 350 RETURN 375 PRINT : FOR X = 1 TO 500 : NEXT X 376 RETURN 400 FOR X = 1 TO 8000: NEXT X 401 PRINT: PRINT "Press any key to continue."; 999 GET R :HOME 1000 GOTO 10

I posted this on the RT forums but posting here as well since I think others might find it useful.... When playing the AI especially in a meeting engagement, are you looking for a bit more of a challenge? Wouldn't it be interesting if you could have your force arrive in various sections and at unpredictable times? I initially got the following idea from someone else who had started a thread about creating deployment rules with a random component (i think they pulled cards to generate their directives)... Couldn't seem to find the original thread unfortunately. Basically, I programmed my own random generator (in Applesoft BASIC) that runs in a simple Apple II emulator (Javascript in a browser window). Here is the link for the emulator (http://www.calormen.com/jsbasic/ ). Below I've included the programming code. All you have to do to use it is to copy in my code and hit the 'run' button. Now I'll explain how it works.... I made this mainly for meeting engagement vs the AI in WEGO in order to make my medium and large battles a bit more challenging and interesting by not allowing me to advance all available forces at once and to create a randomized and unpredictable reinforcement schedule. But I suppose it could work for probes, attacks and assaults as well as certain defenses. Using a meeting engagement for example... I'll usually hand pick my forces and when it comes to the set up screen, I'll place them line abreast as far back in the set up zone as possible (assuming the set up zone is initially out of visual contact from the enemy). Then I start the battle and run my deployment generator... It asks how many friendly HQ's are left in the battle... Since it's the start of the battle, it would be all of them. So let's say I have the following forces and HQ's organized in the following manner: 1st Infantry Battalion HQ1 A Company HQ2 1st platoon HQ3 2nd platoon HQ4 3rd platoon HQ5 B Company HQ6 1st platoon HQ7 2nd platoon HQ8 3rd Armored Battalion HQ9 1st Tank Platoon HQ10 2nd Tank Platoon HQ11 Based on this selection I would have a total of 11 HQ's and I would enter it into my deployment generator. It would then randomly select one of the 11 HQ's to have a chance to deploy... Let's say it selected the 6th HQ. Going in sequential order of the above force selection, HQ6 would mean B company and all it's subordinate HQ's (HQ7 and HQ8) would have a chance to deploy . Next the generator will ask what is the chance that HQ6 will be deployed. I set it up so I can make my own odds based on a factor of 10. I made my own rules as follows but you could make up your own: Chance a whole battalion will deploy: 1 in 10 Chance a whole company will deploy: 3 in 10 Chance any particular platoon will deploy 5 in 10 Based on these rules I would enter 3... then the generator would let me know if HQ6 (B company and all it's subordinates) would be arriving or not. If it is, it would let me know if it would be arriving this turn or at some turn in the future (I have it programmed for a maximum of 5 minutes). If it did not deploy, then I wouldn't be able to advance or use any of B Company's forces on that turn. If it did deploy and say the generator said it would arrive in 2 minutes, then I could only advance or use B company after those two minutes passed. If a unit deploys I would then take it off the list and re-number my remaining HQ's before I ran the generator again for the next turn. In this example, I would only have 8 more HQ's left so that is what I would put into the generator for the next turn. Let's say it tells me that HQ8 has a chance to deploy and after entering its deployment odds of 5 it arrives on this turn ... in this example that would mean 2nd Tank Platoon would be available to advance. I would then take it off the list and run the generator again for the next turn. Now I have only 7 HQ's left. So let's say the generator pulls up HQ1... that would mean 1st Battalion and any remaining subordinates, which would be A Company, 1st Platoon, 2nd Platoon and 3rd Platoon... then of course I would put in it's deployment odds which would be 1. Let's say it would be arriving in 5 min... then of course that would mean I could not advance or use any of 1st Battalion, A Company, 1st, 2nd or 3rd Platoon until 5 turns have passed. I would continue this process until all HQ's and their subordinates had deployed... certainly makes it more challenging in a meeting engagement when you don't get any forces to advance until 3-5 minutes into the battle for example. Or it's 8 or 10 minutes into the battle and you are only fighting with a platoon and are desperately needing more units to arrive and get into the fight. I've played one game where it took almost 30 min for my tank battalion to show up... talk about challenging!' If my instructions seem hard to follow or confusing, please let me know and I'll try to clarify. But basically this system allows you to have reinforcements show up at unpredictable times. You just have to run it outside of CM and make sure you keep track of what the generator dictates. I just keep track of the the list and directives on a piece of paper. If you are versed in the BASIC programming code, feel free to make your own adjustments/improvements or adapt it to your specific needs. Enjoy! -Mark ------MisterMark's Deployment Generator Code----- 1 Rem MisterMark's Deployment Generator for CM 2 PR#3 : TEXT : HOME 3 PRINT "Press any key to generate mission parameters."; 4 CA = INT( RND(8) * 10)+1 5 T = INT( RND(1) * 6 ) 6 S = INT( RND(8) * 20 )+1 7 IF (PEEK(49152)) THEN GET G$:PRINT:PRINT: GOTO 10 8 GOTO 4 10 Rem Generate 11 PRINT "How many HQ's left in this battle?"; 15 INPUT " ";H 16 IF H < 1000 AND H > 1 THEN GOTO 19 17 GOTO 11 19 FOR X = 1 TO 3000: NEXT X 20 S = INT( RND(8) * H )+1 25 PRINT 30 PRINT "What is HQ";S "'s chance to be deployed?"; 40 INPUT " ";C 41 FOR X = 1 TO 3000: NEXT X 42 IF C = 0 THEN GOTO 30 45 PRINT: PRINT "S t a n d b y . . ." 70 FOR X = 1 TO 17000 : NEXT X 80 CA = INT( RND(8) * 10)+1 81 IF C = 1 AND CA = 1 THEN GOTO 200 82 IF C = 2 AND CA <= 2 THEN GOTO 200 83 IF C = 3 AND CA <= 3 THEN GOTO 200 84 IF C = 4 AND CA <= 4 THEN GOTO 200 85 IF C = 5 AND CA <= 5 THEN GOTO 200 86 IF C = 6 AND CA <= 6 THEN GOTO 200 87 IF C = 7 AND CA <=7 THEN GOTO 200 88 IF C = 8 AND CA <=8 THEN GOTO 200 89 IF C = 9 AND CA <=9 THEN GOTO 200 110 PRINT: PRINT "HQ"; S " did not deploy or arrive on this turn." 115 GOTO 400 120 GET R 130 GOTO 5 140 150 REM IF CA = 1 THEN PRINT "HQ";H " will deploy in ";T " minuets" 200 T = INT( RND(1) * 6 ) 250 IF T = 0 THEN GOSUB 275 255 IF T > 0 THEN GOSUB 300 260 GOTO 400 275 PRINT: PRINT "HQ";S " has arrived on this turn!" 280 RETURN 300 PRINT: PRINT "HQ";S " will arrive in "; T " min!" 350 RETURN 375 PRINT : FOR X = 1 TO 500 : NEXT X 376 RETURN 400 FOR X = 1 TO 8000: NEXT X 401 PRINT: PRINT "Press any key to continue."; 999 GET R :HOME 1000 GOTO 10

Does this mean playing single player with a 'helper buddy' is the only way to get fog of war happening for both at the operational level and on the tactical level? If I understand correctly, playing CM with the Tiller games in true 2 player fashion would compromise fog of war as well?

SFNativeEngima and SlowMotion, I have a third party solution/work-around that may help... you maybe able to adapt it or rework it to suit your own needs. I'll lay it out as it is intended to be used. I initially got the following idea from someone else who had started a thread about creating deployment rules with a random component (i think they pulled cards to generate their directives)... Couldn't seem to find the original thread unfortunately. Basically, I programmed my own random generator (in Applesoft BASIC) that runs in a simple Apple II emulator (Javascript in a browser window). Here is the link for the emulator (http://www.calormen.com/jsbasic/ ). Below I've included the programming code. All you have to do to use it is to copy in my code and hit the 'run' button. Now I'll explain how it works.... I made this mainly for meeting engagement vs the AI in WEGO in order to make my medium and large battles a bit more challenging and interesting by not allowing me to advance all available forces at once and to create a randomized and unpredictable reinforcement schedule. But I suppose it could work for probes, attacks and assaults as well as certain defenses. Using a meeting engagement for example... I'll usually hand pick my forces and when it comes to the set up screen, I'll place them line abreast as far back in the set up zone as possible (assuming the set up zone is initially out of visual contact from the enemy). Then I start the battle and run my deployment generator... It asks how many friendly HQ's are left in the battle... Since it's the start of the battle, it would be all of them. So let's say I have the following forces and HQ's organized in the following manner: 1st Infantry Battalion HQ1 A Company HQ2 1st platoon HQ3 2nd platoon HQ4 3rd platoon HQ5 B Company HQ6 1st platoon HQ7 2nd platoon HQ8 3rd Armored Battalion HQ9 1st Tank Platoon HQ10 2nd Tank Platoon HQ11 Based on this selection I would have a total of 11 HQ's and I would enter it into my deployment generator. It would then randomly select one of the 11 HQ's to have a chance to deploy... Let's say it selected the 6th HQ. Going in sequential order of the above force selection, HQ6 would mean B company and all it's subordinate HQ's (HQ7 and HQ8) would have a chance to deploy . Next the generator will ask what is the chance that HQ6 will be deployed. I set it up so I can make my own odds based on a factor of 10. I made my own rules as follows but you could make up your own: Chance a whole battalion will deploy: 1 in 10 Chance a whole company will deploy: 3 in 10 Chance any particular platoon will deploy 5 in 10 Based on these rules I would enter 3... then the generator would let me know if HQ6 (B company and all it's subordinates) would be arriving or not. If it is, it would let me know if it would be arriving this turn or at some turn in the future (I have it programmed for a maximum of 5 minutes). If it did not deploy, then I wouldn't be able to advance or use any of B Company's forces on that turn. If it did deploy and say the generator said it would arrive in 2 minutes, then I could only advance or use B company after those two minutes passed. If a unit deploys I would then take it off the list and re-number my remaining HQ's before I ran the generator again for the next turn. In this example, I would only have 8 more HQ's left so that is what I would put into the generator for the next turn. Let's say it tells me that HQ8 has a chance to deploy and after entering its deployment odds of 5 it arrives on this turn ... in this example that would mean 2nd Tank Platoon would be available to advance. I would then take it off the list and run the generator again for the next turn. Now I have only 7 HQ's left. So let's say the generator pulls up HQ1... that would mean 1st Battalion and any remaining subordinates, which would be A Company, 1st Platoon, 2nd Platoon and 3rd Platoon... then of course I would put in it's deployment odds which would be 1. Let's say it would be arriving in 5 min... then of course that would mean I could not advance or use any of 1st Battalion, A Company, 1st, 2nd or 3rd Platoon until 5 turns have passed. I would continue this process until all HQ's and their subordinates had deployed... certainly makes it more challenging in a meeting engagement when you don't get any forces to advance until 3-5 minutes into the battle for example. Or it's 8 or 10 minutes into the battle and you are only fighting with a platoon and are desperately needing more units to arrive and get into the fight. I've played one game where it took almost 30 min for my tank battalion to show up... talk about challenging!' If my instructions seem hard to follow or confusing, please let me know and I'll try to clarify. But basically this system allows you to have reinforcements show up at unpredictable times. You just have to run it outside of CM and make sure you keep track of what the generator dictates. I just keep track of the the list and directives on a piece of paper. If you are versed in the BASIC programming code, feel free to make your own adjustments/improvements or adapt it to your specific needs. Enjoy! -Mark ------MisterMark's Deployment Generator Code----- 1 Rem MisterMark's Deployment Generator for CM 2 PR#3 : TEXT : HOME 3 PRINT "Press any key to generate mission parameters."; 4 CA = INT( RND(8) * 10)+1 5 T = INT( RND(1) * 6 ) 6 S = INT( RND(8) * 20 )+1 7 IF (PEEK(49152)) THEN GET G$:PRINT:PRINT: GOTO 10 8 GOTO 4 10 Rem Generate 11 PRINT "How many HQ's left in this battle?"; 15 INPUT " ";H 16 IF H < 1000 AND H > 1 THEN GOTO 19 17 GOTO 11 19 FOR X = 1 TO 3000: NEXT X 20 S = INT( RND(8) * H )+1 25 PRINT 30 PRINT "What is HQ";S "'s chance to be deployed?"; 40 INPUT " ";C 41 FOR X = 1 TO 3000: NEXT X 42 IF C = 0 THEN GOTO 30 45 PRINT: PRINT "S t a n d b y . . ." 70 FOR X = 1 TO 17000 : NEXT X 80 CA = INT( RND(8) * 10)+1 81 IF C = 1 AND CA = 1 THEN GOTO 200 82 IF C = 2 AND CA <= 2 THEN GOTO 200 83 IF C = 3 AND CA <= 3 THEN GOTO 200 84 IF C = 4 AND CA <= 4 THEN GOTO 200 85 IF C = 5 AND CA <= 5 THEN GOTO 200 86 IF C = 6 AND CA <= 6 THEN GOTO 200 87 IF C = 7 AND CA <=7 THEN GOTO 200 88 IF C = 8 AND CA <=8 THEN GOTO 200 89 IF C = 9 AND CA <=9 THEN GOTO 200 110 PRINT: PRINT "HQ"; S " did not deploy or arrive on this turn." 115 GOTO 400 120 GET R 130 GOTO 5 140 150 REM IF CA = 1 THEN PRINT "HQ";H " will deploy in ";T " minuets" 200 T = INT( RND(1) * 6 ) 250 IF T = 0 THEN GOSUB 275 255 IF T > 0 THEN GOSUB 300 260 GOTO 400 275 PRINT: PRINT "HQ";S " has arrived on this turn!" 280 RETURN 300 PRINT: PRINT "HQ";S " will arrive in "; T " min!" 350 RETURN 375 PRINT : FOR X = 1 TO 500 : NEXT X 376 RETURN 400 FOR X = 1 TO 8000: NEXT X 401 PRINT: PRINT "Press any key to continue."; 999 GET R :HOME 1000 GOTO 10

That's kind of what I suspected... sort of a bummer since it eliminates having any fog of war in a one player mode. Well I guess I will patiently wait for this project to come to fruition: http://buckeyebg.com/the-game/ -Mark

I've been curious about doing some operational play with CMx2 and I've read a few threads and looked at some of the resources in order to do so. The one question I have that I can't seem to find the answer to is can I play the Tiller games with CMx2 as myself vs the AI? Obviously playing vs the AI in CM isn't an issue but can using the AI in the Tiller games to control the other side still work when blending the two games together? -Mark