Glubokii Boy Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 Hello... I'm having some trouble with getting the AI troops do what i want... I don't recall seing this when i have done some simple test before. What am i missing ? The problem... I'm getting an unwanted DELAY both with the AI reacting to a trigger event and also when going from AI-order to AI-order... Triggerproblem first... - I have set up a terrain objective as a TRIGGER ENEMY... - I want a light machinegun-team to advance to a different location ones the player moves some troops to that triggerlocation... Playing in scenario author mode i move some troops to that location... The problem is that the machingun-team does nothing...UNTIL THE NEXT TURN STARTS...Then the first thing it does is to move to its next order location... If the timing is unlucky and the player moves some troops into the zone at for example 12.02...then the machinegun will wait in place for the remaining 58 seconds until the next turn starts. When doing some simple testing with the triggers before i seem to recall that the AI reacted as soon as the trigger was activated...NOT WAITING UNTIL THE NEXT TURN like i'm seing now... Am i wrong about this ? and miss-remembering... Is this working as intended...THE AI WILL NOT REACT UNTIL THE NEXT TURN ? or am i doing something wrong... ? I have... - Exit before AND set to 00.00 and 01.00.00 (one hour) - I have WAIT FOR set to the trigger location (terrain objective ENEMY TRIGGER). - I have the Machingun set to CAUTIOUS, ADVANCE... I'm having sort of the same problems with multiple AI-orders right now... The move to their order location AND WAIT until (at best) the next turn starts before moving to their next order location. If i understand the manual corractly...If i set the EXIT BEFORE AND to 00.00 and 00.00 then the AI troops should move right though the AI orders one after the other without waiting... Is what i'm seeing with regard to this also the best i can get or am i missing something here to...Is it not possible to have the AI move without any significant pauses at the order loactions... As with the triggers i seem to recall that this should be possible.... I hope i'm missing something... Any help will be apprisiated ! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kohlenklau Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 I am also seeing this and wish it could be fixed. I don't think you are doing anything incorrectly repsol. I tested with a simple scenario in all 3 games. CMBN, CMFI and CMRT. I always double-checked that the time buttons were set to zeroes. What I observed contradicts what the manual says should be occurring. The AI unit should flow through the waypoints as if you were watching normal Tac AI control of your human controlled unit. Moving from waypoint to waypoint, a tiny pause to reface and then up on your feet and headed off again. Instead it uses the entire WEGO minute turn for not only the shortest of movements but the next entire WEGO minute for the refacing in prep for the next movement. I then thought to see what it does in real time mode. It still has thinking gaps between the waypoints but they are short only seem 5 seconds or so long. It seems more fluid in real time. But noteworthy maybe that a tank going from AI order waypoint to the next, seems to lock up its brakes as it gets to the next waypoint rather than turning and continuing on. My use of triggers also confirms that they need the next minute to take action. For my scenario it seemed okay based on the leap frog nature I was after. These comments from what I tested and observed. I hope we get some word from on high. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glubokii Boy Posted May 27, 2014 Author Share Posted May 27, 2014 hello, kohlenklau... Thanks for your answer (even though it was not the one i was hoping for...) We seems to have the same experience...I guess this is working as intended then... A bit dissapointing for sure. The delay with the trigger respons makes some kind of sence...A human opponent would not be able to react to a new threat until the next turn either...But i cant say i like it... An instant AI respons to a trigger-event would for sure help with the fine tuning of AI actions... I guess i have to change my thinking a bit and plan the AI actions with these limitations in mind...I should be doable... A bigger problem though is the long wait between AI orders...This will sure restrict what you are able to do with the AI in a big way... The scenario i'm working on now has met with a serious set-back... Some of the major feature i had planned for it seems to be undoable...and others will require some major changes to my ideas... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PanzerMike Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 Yeah, this is how it works. For me it has not been a great issue to be honest. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfhand Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 From my perspective (not the perspective of a scenario designer), it makes sense to me that the AI would have to wait until the next turn for the post-trigger orders to take place since a human player has the same limitation. Have you tested in RT? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glubokii Boy Posted May 27, 2014 Author Share Posted May 27, 2014 Ok...Thanks guys for letting me know... A learing experience... Unfortunatelly i will have to scrap this scenario i'm working on...To bad...I had high hopes for this one...Maybe i will finish the map and release it as a QB map. I'm sure i will be able to make some nice scenarios in the future but this one would require the AI to be able to drive down a road (that is not perfectly strait) in a hastly fashion... I can not se a way to make this work... Also...A number of smaller ideas i had will require some major changes and ruin my original thoughts for the scenario... I will have to keep these things in mind when trying to make my next one... No...I have not tested the trigger respons-time in RT but i guess it's shorter just like the pauses between AI-orders like kohlenklau tested... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Canadian Cat Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 I'm sure i will be able to make some nice scenarios in the future but this one would require the AI to be able to drive down a road (that is not perfectly strait) in a hastly fashion... I take it you are giving orders along the road with 0:00 times in the hopes that it would direct the units along the road without pauses. Have you tried just setting up the orders for the beginning of the road and the end of the road and seeing what route the AI plots? I am not saying it will be magical but it might just do what you want. Especially if you set the units stance to something less cautious. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kohlenklau Posted May 28, 2014 Share Posted May 28, 2014 Repsol. The road. Maybe you can force the AI to stay on it with sides lined with vehicle impassable terrain? Then give a starting way point and the ending one and let her rip and see what it does. Might look okay. Good luck. Don't give up yet. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glubokii Boy Posted May 28, 2014 Author Share Posted May 28, 2014 Hello guys, Thanks for your suggestions... These might actually work. I will try them... Repsol. The road. Maybe you can force the AI to stay on it with sides lined with vehicle impassable terrain? Then give a starting way point and the ending one and let her rip and see what it does. Might look okay. Good luck. Don't give up yet. I take it you are giving orders along the road with 0:00 times in the hopes that it would direct the units along the road without pauses. Have you tried just setting up the orders for the beginning of the road and the end of the road and seeing what route the AI plots? I am not saying it will be magical but it might just do what you want. Especially if you set the units stance to something less cautious. Yes...The way i have done it is like you describe, Ian.leslie. I will try yours and kohlenklaus suggestion and se if i can get it to work... Thanks for your help ! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Egger Posted May 28, 2014 Share Posted May 28, 2014 Hi Repsol, you need to set up five plans, the IA do one of them aleatory, if you only make one, probably the unit will stand still (the IA's plan ). Prefixed orders are dangerous, so is recomendable to prefix five different plans. Yo can put five equal plans too. Cheers. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Canadian Cat Posted May 28, 2014 Share Posted May 28, 2014 Hello guys, Thanks for your suggestions... These might actually work. I will try them... Good let us know how it goes - I have never had a long stretch of road that "needed" to be driven on. My one published scenario has some truck traffic and the AI did a pretty good job of driving them down the road - not as perfectly on the road as I would have specified but I was OK with it. I like @kohlenklaus's idea for helping the AI a bit. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Canadian Cat Posted May 28, 2014 Share Posted May 28, 2014 Hi Repsol, you need to set up five plans, No, that is @Respol's problem. He is having issues with the orders not being followed as seamlessly as he wants. If you have four AI plans set to "Not used" then only one plan will be executed. So there is no need to create something for all five plans. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kohlenklau Posted May 28, 2014 Share Posted May 28, 2014 Egger, That is not correct. Yes, it is good for variety for replayability to have multiple AI plans. But even with just one AI plan and other 4 set to "not used", the AI salutes and carries out the orders without question. Or it will be shot! This after all is the Ost Front. Once I get my main AI plan performing as desired. I then copy and paste and make changes to create the other plans. More effort on the left flank for one, more on the right for another, more fire support with LOS, some weird wrinkle for another. At least that is how I do it given 16 AI groups and 3 set-up zones. Let us know how it goes repsol! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glubokii Boy Posted May 28, 2014 Author Share Posted May 28, 2014 Hello again, guys I have tried your suggestions and they worked to a degree... The problem is...To keep the veichles on the road i had to place impassable terrain pretty much all along the roads (two). It was not enough to place that kind of terrain only around the road bends. When doing that the AI chose to take an other route before the bends (leaving the road). Having impassable terrain all along the roads is not an option either i'm affraid...It not only blocks the AI movement but also prevents the players from moving veichles and armour across the roads...That is not good. After some more consideration i might have found a way to make this work after all by making some small changes to the map and some tweaking of my original ideas... I will have an other go at it... Thanks for your assistance... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted May 29, 2014 Share Posted May 29, 2014 Trigger locations can be a big as they need to be. If you place a trigger at a road junction and the player avoids the roads junction fearing a trigger... well, nothing happens. If you pant a trigger as a tripwire strip that stretches a cross half the map it's going to be impossible for the opponent to second guess you. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kohlenklau Posted May 29, 2014 Share Posted May 29, 2014 Repsol, PM me if you want to e-mail the btt file and I would be glad to see if another set of eyes helps. Just an offer... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glubokii Boy Posted May 29, 2014 Author Share Posted May 29, 2014 Hello, kohlenklau I will do some more work on the scenario to get it a bit further on the way and by next friday i will send you a work in progress version of the scenario. I'd be more than happy to hear any comments and suggestions you might have Thanks again I will pm you next week... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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