Glubokii Boy Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Is there any chans that some kind of formation orders will be possible in the near future or will that require to much computer power and not be possible with the current machines ? With larger maps, better computers (that can handle larger forces) and the russian way of 'doing things' en mass - a platoon to do a western-/german squads jobb - a company to do a western-/german platoons jobb Where will that leave us when the russians are tasked with doing something that the other nations would use a battalion to do ? commanding a whole brigade or regiment !!! That sounds quite overwhelming and very time consuming (a huge number of units to order around) I guess that some of this will be solved by having the russians arrive piecemeal as reinforcements...but still...At some point during the game there will be a huge amount or russian units on the map... If we could click on a HQ-unit and order it (and its subordinates) to do some 'simple' tasks in a reasonably good way: - defend this zone - defend along this line - ambush in this zone - ambush along this line - probe along this line - attack this possition - attack this area - recon this area Theese examples may not be the best kind of orders to use...but something along this line would be good I'm sure that the larger the formation gets the more difficult it will be for the AI to be able to carry these orders out... maybe we could start in a small way ? With only platoon HQs being able to do formation orders and with time also include company HQs 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 I realize that there are a lot of players who want to command larger formations in CM, but that seems like a kind of madness to me. CM is just not the game for modeling regimental-sized forces. In real life, no one commanded regiments on the level that CM portrays. It was humanly impossible. That's why chains of command were invented. If you want to command a regiment, then companies not squads should be your basic unit (and even that is giving in to micromanaging as a regimental commander would command battalions for the most part and his battalion commanders would command companies...but I digress). If you want to command regiments or divisions, you need a different game on a different scale, plain and simple. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glubokii Boy Posted February 12, 2014 Author Share Posted February 12, 2014 No...i do not particularry WANT to command a brigade or regiment... but take this example... - A LARGE map - Germans defending with 2 companies and some support weapons Not very uncommon setup... The western allies would attack such a possition with atlest a battalion...Would they not ? If i don't understand this russian way of doing things wrong.. "A company to do a platoons job" etc... Would that not mean that a russian attack on such a possition would be in the form of a brigade or something simular (3 battalions)... Having less then 2 companies defending on a large (or huge) map does not sound likely to me... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YankeeDog Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Everybody tried to gain overwhelming numerical superiority at the point of the attack, not just the Soviets. That's just basic tactics. In CM, we by and large don't play the battles where the attacker manages to amass overwhelming force and steamroll the defense, because these are uninteresting. We play the battle where things were a little more balanced and the defender had a chance of holding on. Plenty of these happened on the East Front, just as they did in the ETO. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glubokii Boy Posted February 13, 2014 Author Share Posted February 13, 2014 OK..i'm sure your right I got the impression that this would be sort of a 'special feature' with the russian troops to make them different to play with (in CMRT an other EF games) compared to the other nations. - Use LARGE number of men to do the same thing as the germans and western-allies could do with far fewer troops. I saw it before me a large number of scenarios with well over a hundred russian units on the map...I'm glad to hear that this will not be the case... something like battalion sized scenarios are the biggest scenarios im willing to play...Anything bigger then that will be to slow going i think. Looking at Bils and Elvis AARs...Bil does not have a brigade to play with. thats GOOD 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 There's been a lot of discussions like this over many, many years (going back to probably 1999). Not bad ideas, just not the direction we're going with Combat Mission. The primary reason is it would basically be an entirely different game. It's that much work and the outcome of play would be radically different. Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Placebo Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 There's been a lot of discussions like this over many, many years (going back to probably 1999). Not bad ideas, just not the direction we're going with Combat Mission. The primary reason is it would basically be an entirely different game. It's that much work and the outcome of play would be radically different. Steve Glad to here it, i much prefer the small battles, both for time and also all the detail in the game. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glubokii Boy Posted February 13, 2014 Author Share Posted February 13, 2014 There's been a lot of discussions like this over many, many years (going back to probably 1999). Not bad ideas, just not the direction we're going with Combat Mission. The primary reason is it would basically be an entirely different game. It's that much work and the outcome of play would be radically different. Steve Yes, i guess it would be a totally different game (probably very intresting and fun to play if it worked well). but As long as the forces with the current system are manageble in a decent amount of time...I think your way is the way to go... The 'other game' will be for someone else to make. I think that more time spent with developing AI triggers will be a time BETTER spent... keep up the good work ! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glubokii Boy Posted February 13, 2014 Author Share Posted February 13, 2014 There's been a lot of discussions like this over many, many years (going back to probably 1999). Not bad ideas, just not the direction we're going with Combat Mission. The primary reason is it would basically be an entirely different game. It's that much work and the outcome of play would be radically different. Steve Yes, i guess it would be a totally different game (probably very intresting and fun to play if it worked well). but As long as the forces with the current system are manageble in a decent amount of time...I think your way is the way to go... The 'other game' will be for someone else to make. I think that more time spent with developing AI triggers will be a time BETTER spent... keep up the good work ! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdogg Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 If we can select units by waypoint path along with the adjustable waypoints we now have, it will not take much to give orders by platoon thus making large senarios more manageable. The thing with other a totally different game, it's already been made, it's called command ops battles from the bulge. I think players keep treading into operational scale because bigger engagements are fascinating. I've played command ops, it's cool but it gets boring watching 2d chits slide around making combat sounds with little lines shooting back and forth. I'd love to see those boring command ops engagements come to life in CM 3d glory with pixletruppen moving about. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Most of the time players here tend to argue in favor of increased micromanagement, not in favor of relinquishing ever greater control to the tender mercies of the AI. If gameplay involved simply hitting a button marked "Attack this position" I can scarcely imagine anybody would be satisfied with the result. As it is, you can select everyone at once and march them west with no further input. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glubokii Boy Posted February 14, 2014 Author Share Posted February 14, 2014 The thing with other a totally different game, it's already been made, it's called command ops battles from the bulge. I think players keep treading into operational scale because bigger engagements are fascinating. I've played command ops, it's cool but it gets boring watching 2d chits slide around making combat sounds with little lines shooting back and forth. I'd love to see those boring command ops engagements come to life in CM 3d glory with pixletruppen moving about. Yes...I play command ops from time to time...It's a good game and they have some intresting ideas in the works with their 2.0 uipgrade. Looks promising... Most of the time players here tend to argue in favor of increased micromanagement, not in favor of relinquishing ever greater control to the tender mercies of the AI. If gameplay involved simply hitting a button marked "Attack this position" I can scarcely imagine anybody would be satisfied with the result. As it is, you can select everyone at once and march them west with no further input. Getting the AI to understand how to read the terrain, understand the pros and cons of its own units and be able to react to enemy actions would no doubt be a massiv challange to program...Thus my original question...could this be possible at this level (with half-squad sized units and individual team). Could the AI do a good enough job that the players would find acceptable ? There seems to be quite alot of people who likes command ops (where handing over much of the decision making to the computer is a major feature of the game). I'd love to see those boring command ops engagements come to life in CM 3d glory with pixletruppen moving about. I to think that a mix of command ops and CM is an intresting idea...A littel bigger in scale then current CM battles but with CM-like graphics... Might not work...but intresting idea 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Collingwood Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 Yes...I play command ops from time to time...It's a good game and they have some intresting ideas in the works with their 2.0 uipgrade. Looks promising... ( snip ) Could the AI do a good enough job that the players would find acceptable ? There seems to be quite alot of people who likes command ops (where handing over much of the decision making to the computer is a major feature of the game). Given enough resources I think yes, AI could do an "acceptable" job. Acceptable enough that you would be able to handle the critical points of the battle yourself while leaving the AI to hold down other spots. I only say this because of the Command Ops AI, which is mighty impressive. Reading their forum it seems most of the debug work is to do with the AI. Of course this is because there is so little to worry about with graphics among other things. Aside from the TOE and scenario design, future versions have a lot of effort to put into doctrine, which translates as "making the AI behave how that unit/command would have in WW2". If we could kidnap Dave O'Connor and enslave him in the CM dungeon for a few years... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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