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Hull down/ Spotting /Anti-tank/ QB issues


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Given the number of issues on the forum at the moment we don't seem to be much better off than CMx1 (apart from better graphics) on a number of realism related matters.

If you want realism, you've got to play ground level and map level only. No 3D flying round the farm mode.

Reality is such a let down.

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not sure why you think like that; by your registration date i "guess" you where not around as Shock Force was released, maybe you want to install CMSF and patch it to 1.02 or 1.04 or so, there you will see "real issues". and mind you, late summer 2007 when the CMSF forums was in turmoil steve kept saying "the game is fine" :D

CMBN with the both modules is in total pretty darn excellent in my eyes when you compare it to what engine state we got to play with in 2007.

is it perfect today? no. can it be better? yes.

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*Shrug*. If CMx1 scratches your itch better, then by all means go play CMx1. I don't participate, but as I understand it there are a number of active online communities that play CMx1 games. More power to 'em.

I personally think CMx2 is far superior all around -- gameplay, realism, graphics... not perfect to be sure (as no game ever will be), but leagues above CMx1.

But you know what they say about opinions... like certain bodily orifices, everybody's got one.

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I wish every other game I'd purchased had such issues. Game released, issues found and discussed, progress (even if sometimes slow) towards correction, game guaranteed updates so as to keep up with the engine corrections....

To say however we are no better off than CMx1 is just drama. To be honest I had pretty much stopped playing it after I got CM:SF. It was a long patient wait for CM:BN, but I just couldn't go back to CMx1 functionality after having played a CMx2 game.

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Well I started this so I'd better reply.

I've been around since before the days of DOS, but didn't go for CMSF because killing ragheads with modern weapons isn't my thing. And frankly the meddling in Afghanistan is such an embarrassing reminder of the 1842 retreat from Kabul that I pray the soul of Doctor Brydon isn't spinning in his grave.

I just fired up a scenario, "Chance Encounter", which exists both on my XP machine with CMBO and Win8 with CMBN. If you have both yourself try it, side by side, turn by turn.

At least CMBN has more landmarks e.g.

Road to Somefink

St Grammont Abbey

Steve's Cafe

Mord's Meadows

JuJu's Modshop

Culliton's House

Memorial for the Unknown Modder

Compare the number of mouse clicks, amount of mouse movement, number of cardboard cutouts vs number of crabs scuttling, the nice data base when you've spotted something and decide for yourself. Oh **** it's a Stug III, back up guys. Aaargh.

“The old order changeth, yielding place to new,

And God fulfils himself in many ways,

Lest one good custom should corrupt the world."

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Good enough: you don't like the game.

There are some games I tried and didn't like. For myself, I recognize if it is a matter of taste, and simply leave them on the shelf. (Or I give them to someone who wants them.) Maybe I thought it would give me a different experience than what the designers made. That's on me for not reading the description or reviews.

Then, there are some games that are -different- than what -I- want them to be. Well, I put that on me. If I want a game which lets me command divisions at a time, but I bought CMBN, well, that's not the game's fault, is it?

Finally, there are some games which are broken. (The FIRST and LAST game I ever bought without reading a review was "Trespasser". It was a Jurassic Park type of game with "realistic physics" about 15 years ago. Biggest piece of crudware ever released. I learned.) If the game is broken on release, word gets out. (Early adopters take risks.) If the developer doesn't PROMPTLY fix them, or, worse, gets a reputation for crudware, they go out of business.

It sounds like you want more of the CMBO experience. Cool. Seriously. It was (and is) a great game which gives a simplified approach compared to CMBN. (Squad Leader vs. ASL?) But that's your preference, not a "problem" with CMBN.

Personally, unless a game is buggy, if I don't like it, I don't post on the game forum decrying my dislike. That just doesn't make any rational sense, does it? Maybe you're looking for positive reinforcement for your negative feelings? Shrug. That's on you.

Now, I mentioned "unless a game is buggy". You'll jump on that. I don't think CMBN et alia, are buggy. Is there more polishing to be done? YES. Is there a bit more tweaking that can happen? Absolutely. Buggy? No. You may disagree with design decisons (which I do in some cases), but that doesn't make it buggy.

(Oh, the "killing ragheads" comment? Uncool. And that's from someone with over 26 years in the US military (and still in). Say it in private if you'd like, but, really, "ragheads" in a public GAME forum? Perjoratives only demean your argument. Not that it was on solid logical ground to start. If you'd actually PLAYED CMSF (patched), you'd find the Syrian forces quite a handful at times. You display ignorance by your statement.)

Find a game you like and post on their forum.

Regards,

Ken

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I do find it odd that in a forum on game where the object is to kill and maim people you get auto censored for using a rude word about bodily functions or ticked off for denigrating a pixelated enemy. But you are allowed to be called ignorant.

I do however take comfort from the fact that ignorance is temporary whereas stupidity is permanent.

There are uncomfortable parallels between the way religious and military organisations take new recruits and indoctrinate them. First removing freedom of thought and action, and then building obedience and loyalty to a creed or unit, punishing physically, ritualistically and often bizarrely those who continue to show individuality. Human beings seem particularly susceptible to this. It's like blindly agreeing with whatever mother says, irrespective of whether she is drunk or sober.

The Internet is full of these weird tribalisms be they Canon/Nikon or Apple/Microsoft. In each case there is displayed all the disadvantages of arguments in public.

I will continue to play CMBN despite its flaws, not least because as XP fades to dust CMBN will be the only choice unless a new contender arrives.

My disappointment with CMBN has meant that I've spent more time on games such as Command Ops, Hearts of Iron, Advanced Tactics, and various offering by AGEOD.

I'm actually something of an evangelist for wargames, buying them and giving them to people who express some interest in history. This of course is harder to do these days as there are fewer retail shops but I scour the shelves for the few offerings still available.

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No one on this thread has called you ignorant. You have had replies which very politely note your comments but disagree with them. What is wrong with that?

The only point you have been called out on is using the word 'ragheads'. It is a pejorative applied to people from Arab countries and no different in principle to perjoratives used for other groups. Your suggestion that it is ok to use it in the context of pixelated truppen is wrong because it is still applicable to the ethnic group represented by those truppen. Anyway you only got a slap on the wrist from c3K for it - just accept you made a mistake, say sorry and move on.

Sorry to come over all PC but there are people from many countries and ethnic origins on these forums and they should not have to deal with descriptions like this.

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Sorry to come over all PC but there are people from many countries and ethnic origins on these forums and they should not have to deal with descriptions like this.

It's not a case of being PC, it's simply being respectful.

I think perhaps there is a context for making a perjorative statement about an ethnic group but that context is not easy to convey or define. In almost all cases it would be one which is lighthearted, humorous but rarely if ever serious. Even then, the intended meaning could be interpreted by others wrongly - esp online.

As a matter of online decorum, like the use of other offensive expletives, it's just best avoided - lest others start to avoid you.

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I am as far from PC as is possible. My views on the proper role of the US military versus their current role are non-germane to this discussion. However, if you think that I have been indoctrinated into obedience (implied by your response), you are very much mistaken.

It is a common courtesy when on a public forum to refrain from racist, derogatory, or ethnically demeaning terms. Exceptions for obvious jokes, of course. You were not joking.

You think the "object of the game is to maim and kill"? It is a game which showcases TACTICS and eschews visual gore and suffering. I would contend that if the purpose was to "maim and kill", then the game has failed horribly. In fact, I would argue that any product which has an object of maiming and killing could not be called a "game".

Now, I'm not sure if you tried to label me with your "ignorance is temporary but stupidity is permanent" comment, but I assure you that you could not be more wrong if you were aiming it at me. However, if you don't lift yourself out of the mire of your ignorance after having it shown to you, then what does that mean?

It's a game. It's a privately owned forum open to the public. Read the agreement you clicked on when you joined. Let us know after you've read it.

Regards,

Ken

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I just fired up a scenario, "Chance Encounter", which exists both on my XP machine with CMBO and Win8 with CMBN. If you have both yourself try it, side by side, turn by turn.

At least CMBN has more landmarks e.g.

Road to Somefink

St Grammont Abbey

Steve's Cafe

Mord's Meadows

JuJu's Modshop

Culliton's House

Memorial for the Unknown Modder

Compare the number of mouse clicks, amount of mouse movement, number of cardboard cutouts vs number of crabs scuttling, the nice data base when you've spotted something and decide for yourself. Oh **** it's a Stug III, back up guys. Aaargh.

out of this i can not see where your actual problem may be. it seems to me you are turned off by design decisions not by a game flaw?

we don't seem to be much better off than CMx1 (apart from better graphics) on a number of realism related matters.

If you want realism, you've got to play ground level and map level only. No 3D flying round the farm mode.

i guess your specific problem is the god view, you know the game was designed with it from the beginning, CMBO had it. it wont go away ever i guess, and i am glad about it as i like to control the stuff myself.

but say why you do not like the larger amount of control the game gives you? maybe cause it isnt "realistic"?

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